Outer Limits 4x4 Board

The quandry I have is about some diffs and where to put them. Before you all say "where the sun dont shine" at least give me your opinion please.
On one hand I have a 4 center gear LSD and on the other is a standard rear 47 series with a lokka in the center . Both are the same ratio and both going into the same truck - so which way round??
Am I better off with the lokka in the rear ( but only driving on one pin in the center) and the LSD in the front OR am I better off with the lokka in the front and the LSD in the rear???
I know the toyota LSD's aren't the best but they are better than an open wheeler and if I put it in the rear, it will be easier to pull out and shim up, if I put it in the front it wont get as much use and so may last longer. This is in a 308/turbo 400 powered 47 series ute too , by the way.
Thanks for your thoughts.

I would put the lokka in the front I think it makes more difference to the trucks capability than having it in the back. And then would throw the lsd in the bin, but that's just my opinion.

sloshy wrote:I would put the lokka in the front I think it makes more difference to the trucks capability than having it in the back. And then would throw the lsd in the bin, but that's just my opinion.

by "4 centre gear LSD"

do you mean the torsen style LSD offered in early toyota's?

To my knowledge these dont use clutches like the common toyota lsd and thus do actually work.

Shadow wrote:

sloshy wrote:I would put the lokka in the front I think it makes more difference to the trucks capability than having it in the back. And then would throw the lsd in the bin, but that's just my opinion.

by "4 centre gear LSD"

do you mean the torsen style LSD offered in early toyota's?

To my knowledge these dont use clutches like the common toyota lsd and thus do actually work.

no torsen ever offered in a landcruier. they are all the same clutch type.

put the limited slip in the rear, then you might not destroy the lockright.

Whats wrong with having the lockright in the rear and the loose LSD up front its the way id go ...

I run a richmond lockright in the rear of the 60 it seems fine its a bit quirky on road but is easly driven and tyre wear is ok ...

A mate has both ends and loves em tho can be a bit hard to steer but again easly over come once use to how it drives he said ....

lokka wrote:Whats wrong with having the lockright in the rear and the loose LSD up front its the way id go ...

I run a richmond lockright in the rear of the 60 it seems fine its a bit quirky on road but is easly driven and tyre wear is ok ...

A mate has both ends and loves em tho can be a bit hard to steer but again easly over come once use to how it drives he said ....

the V8 will kill it if it is in the rear. the single crosspin will snap and/or the spring pins will break and/or the shoulders of the dog teeth will be shredded.

big power plus auto plus auto locker plus ute (light rear end) can mean very unpredictable on-road performance.

I would fit the lockrite to ebay or the trading post

in the front it will bog you in the sand while turning and wear your cv's out also chopping out your freewheel hub studs

in the rear it will increase rear tyre wear and chop your axle studs out while driving on twisty roads under power
i would not fit one to a daily driver i have a mate who has had endless trouble with his and cannot wait to pull em out

get an airlocker for the front and put the lsd in the back till you can aford an airlocker (easy change)
or if you are willing to pull it all apart put an air locker in the rear and the lsd in the front till you can afford the front locker

selectable lockers are the only way to go!!

I was waiting for the "get an airlocker" brigade to start. Its OK for those with the money, but these are what I've got and I aint going out to buy anything more.

Listen to all these blokes above and sell the lokka to me..I love em and wouldn't run anything else, best option front and rear lokkas. (I need a pair of cruiser lokkas for my new project)

I'd run the lokka in the front just because its better to be front locked if you only have one.

when i first put a lokka in I could only afford one so went rear, other mates have put the first one in the front and it was definatly the more capable option.

Once you get the funds put another lokka in the rear and you'll be cruising past the airlocker brigade no problems.

I run F&R lokkas in a 308 powered surf (cruiser diffs) no probs, mate runs Turboed 308 daily driven with F&R lokkas and cruiser diffs - loves the lokka pulled the airlockers out for lokka reliability and better road manners.

catcha
Leeham

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the V8 will kill it if it is in the rear. the single crosspin will snap and/or the spring pins will break and/or the shoulders of the dog teeth will be shredded.

big power plus auto plus auto locker plus ute (light rear end) can mean very unpredictable on-road performance.

Have you seen this happen ? The v8 in question was driving a single pin open wheeler diff for years as a daily driver before I got it and there isn't any serious wear inside there.

The mate that has em both ends runs a 308 in an 80 runing 33's andhe has had this set upfor a good while now and he dont drive it easy either go the lock rights the richmond gear ones

leehamescort wrote:loves the lokka pulled the airlockers out for lokka reliability and better road manners.

Leeham

WTF
i dont know where to start with that too many things wrong in one sentence



better let all the comp truck boys know
pull your airlockers out quick!! they are sooo unreliable and give worse on road manners because the inside wheel is not scrabbling the whole time

OH see how much you love your lockers on an off camber muddy down slope instant roll over due to the truck kicking sideways:armsup:

lockers are good for a dedicated off road truck for a time (if on a tight budget) but not so good for a daily driver

as far as which is better a locker that you can turn off and on at will or one that does as it chooses I dont even think there is any question about that

if anyone else wants to trade their airlockers for some lockrights pm me and i will buy them a brand new set of awesome lockrights for their crappy old airlockers

thrashlux wrote:

leehamescort wrote:loves the lokka pulled the airlockers out for lokka reliability and better road manners.

Leeham

WTF
i dont know where to start with that too many things wrong in one sentence



better let all the comp truck boys know
pull your airlockers out quick!! they are sooo unreliable and give worse on road manners because the inside wheel is not scrabbling the whole time

OH see how much you love your lockers on an off camber muddy down slope instant roll over due to the truck kicking sideways:armsup:

lockers are good for a dedicated off road truck for a time (if on a tight budget) but not so good for a daily driver

as far as which is better a locker that you can turn off and on at will or one that does as it chooses I dont even think there is any question about that

if anyone else wants to trade their airlockers for some lockrights pm me and i will buy them a brand new set of awesome lockrights for their crappy old airlockers

- How often do the comp guys rebuild their airlockers just for reliabilty and at what cost?
- How many times have you broken something because you should have had it engage but didn't?
- How many times have you broken something because you had the locker engaged but shouldn't have?
- How long does a locker last when you realise too late and switch it on under power?
- Big Horsepower and an open diff on a wet road, not fun. Solid locked diff on road, not fun. Better road handling with a lokka. Yes.

Learn how to drive with a lokka and you'll love it.
Dont believe everything the magazines tell you.

Sorry trev1 for getting off topic, hope my previous post RE front 'vs' rear helped.

Cheers
Leeham

dumbdunce wrote:the single crosspin will snap

How do you figure this? Why is it more likely to snap with an auto locker in there rather than the ordinary gears?

vk7ybi wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:the single crosspin will snap

How do you figure this? Why is it more likely to snap with an auto locker in there rather than the ordinary gears?

the way the auto locker uses the crosspin as part of the ramping setup subjects it to significantly increased and concentrated stress compared with the more distributed loading of the side gears in an open diff. I have seen three broken cross pins in single-crosspin lockrights. the 4 pin option is better but the question was about which diff to put where, and why.

If it is going to be driven on road, put the auto up front...you will get up more obsticles with it in the front, and the lsd will be strong and not blow up as stated b4....i had this setup in a 60...and up front, whilst turning on a track, if you accelerate, hold onto the steering wheel.....trees jump out at ya...in the back, you cant keep axles in the diff (collets snap) and when you change each gear, the car changes direction....total POS in my 60...i sold it to the guy you bought it off and put an arb in.
Andrew

leehamescort wrote:

thrashlux wrote:

leehamescort wrote:loves the lokka pulled the airlockers out for lokka reliability and better road manners.

Leeham

WTF
i dont know where to start with that too many things wrong in one sentence



better let all the comp truck boys know
pull your airlockers out quick!! they are sooo unreliable and give worse on road manners because the inside wheel is not scrabbling the whole time

OH see how much you love your lockers on an off camber muddy down slope instant roll over due to the truck kicking sideways:armsup:

lockers are good for a dedicated off road truck for a time (if on a tight budget) but not so good for a daily driver

as far as which is better a locker that you can turn off and on at will or one that does as it chooses I dont even think there is any question about that

if anyone else wants to trade their airlockers for some lockrights pm me and i will buy them a brand new set of awesome lockrights for their crappy old airlockers

leehamescort wrote: - How often do the comp guys rebuild their airlockers just for reliability and at what cost?

NEVA most guys i know fitt and forget as they never give trouble i have never touched mine opposed to lockrites where the ramps wear

leehamescort wrote:- How many times have you broken something because you should have had it engage but didn't?

NEVA breakages occur due to drive line over load because of when diff is locked

leehamescort wrote:- How many times have you broken something because you had the locker engaged but shouldn't have?

this is how i have busted stuff with the locker because you CANNOT turn it off

leehamescort wrote:- How long does a locker last when you realise too late and switch it on under power?

never done it so NEVA that would be like changing gears with out the clutch you just dont do it

leehamescort wrote:- Big Horsepower and an open diff on a wet road, not fun. Solid locked diff on road, not fun. Better road handling with a lokka. Yes.

THAT is total BS i have had both auto lockers and air lockers on a wet road lockers are lethal with both wheels spinning you have no side stability and the truck does a quick flick sideways under power
with one wheel spinning one wheel maintains side stability

IT really sounds like you have not owned both set ups your self in your car

leehamescort wrote:Learn how to drive with a lokka and you'll love it.
Dont believe everything the magazines tell you.

I dont and never do prefering to rely on personal experience i have had air lockers for 8 years now how bout U ???? What do you think i am some pimply faced teenager with no experience and just get info from magazines and off the internet or guess
WELL no i dont comment on things unless i have actually DONE IT MYSELF
i had a locker before the air locker for about 1.5 years and could not wait to get it out after too much sideways action on the tar (especially in the wet) and on muddy downslopes because it could not be turned off

Air lockers last the life of the truck, are bulet proof are not subject to ramp wear(like lockrites) and reduce wear and load on drive line compared to auto lockers

since i up graded to airlockers zero rear axle stud failures no so with lockrites

seriously you are delusional and have no idea what you are talking about

this whole debate has been a total waste of cyberspace

ps i am totally serious about any people out there who want to swap their airlockers for lockrites
I am always building new trucks they would be good for the next one
some how dont think i will get any takers

thrashlux wrote:
seriously you are delusional and have no idea what you are talking about

CORRECT!!!!

lets not forget what this thread is supposed to be about. its about what trev1 has got and where should he put them. im sure there is a air locker vs lokka thread somewhere on here.

saying that lokka in the front and shimmed up lsd in the rear.

GAV666 wrote:...im sure there is a air locker vs lokka thread somewhere on here.

or three.

much has been said about the air locker vs pretty much everything else on the market, so there's really not much point repeating it here. It's a good thing that auto lockers have a faithful following - if only because it reduces demand for air lockers and somewhat moderates the price. search is your friend if you feel the need to do more research.

to the original question, as has already been stated by people who know, the best all round compromise for reliability, drivability, and on and offroad performance for the given vehicle and the diffs available is LSD rear and lockright front.

HA HA HA HA Lokka's RULE

I havent looked for a day or two, too much BS going on. I ended up going to the rear LSD, purely for the easy to pull out reason. I have driven detroit lockers on the street in high horsepower cars and know quite a few of their quirks and dont really think I would have had much trouble with the lokka in the rear at least as far as driving goes. Another side reason for the LSD in the rear is that I had to re-bearing it so I might as well run the diff with new bearings where it will get used most.

I'm not a fan of the Toyota LSD as they don't seem to last longer than 30.000 km but seeing as you have the lokka in the front when it comes time to fit another Lokka then it's going to be easier to rip the lsd out of rear and lock it up.
But you will climb more hills with the lokka in the front & lsd in the rear.

I have been running 60 series & Lokka's for over 5 years in my Lux , daily driver with big HP V8, 5 speed & 35's and I've had ZERO breakages and road & track manners are grouse.
Yep I've run air lockers in the past and broke heaps of crosspins, spider/side gears, hemisphere's , seals, ripped air lines off on tracks, compressor break downs etc.
I have even had "the professionals" set up my diffs and they let go in under 10,000km in the end I had the diffs rebuilt and I sold them (good thing is they are popular and they sold really fast) then I put a set of Lokka's in the Lux and I have not looked back , I became a convert in no time.