Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I know it has been asked a few times and i've searched!

Now for the backing story
My brother has a 1.3 to swap into his 1litre LWB zook. He's on holiday for a while and while he's away I was thinking of pulling the 1.3 down and seeing if it needs a full rebuild etc as a favour for him.
Is there any point in getting a new grind on the cam? It could be a cheap power up and I've heard a few people say it gave them seat of the pants extra power but I'm not into believing their pants... So what say you? Is it worth the $100 odd dollars for the grind while its out or is the gain so small it isn't worth the dollars?
His 1984 zook has 31's and standard 1litre T-case and the 1.3 is just a standard WT motor (G13ba?) with standard carb.

Ive heard that the regrinds are pretty pointless, but there are companies that do performance cams like insky that are supposed to be pretty good.
The yanks normally combine a cam upgrade with a webber carb.

I had one in mine. (camshaft engineering one) and it seemed to shift the torque band but it did make a good improvement to drivablity.

I also chucked a 3k,4k carb on mine as well.

if u are going to pull it down anyway then i would go the effort inc a port polish

What does a brand new cam have over a regrind? Do they have more lift of the valves etc because they are made with more meat that a regrind can't achieve?

Yeah if i get it done i'll be getting it done at camshaft engineering as they are the only ones in perth that do it???

Kitika wrote:What does a brand new cam have over a regrind? Do they have more lift of the valves etc because they are made with more meat that a regrind can't achieve?

A regrind can increase lift, but it can't significantly change the shape of the cam, so, potentially, there's a lot more scope for change with a new blank rather than a regrind.

Steve.

usually when this comes up, its like extractors, bigger pipe etc... on their own each makes a tiny difference, but when you put it all together you might see a notable improvement. still, for the money spent you could just throw a 1.6 at it.

Some will weld additional material to the lobes before grinding to be able to change the profile more but this does add more cost. A cam made from a fresh blank is the best but most expensive option. Regrinds can work quite well though as I found in my G16B.

cj wrote:Some will weld additional material to the lobes before grinding to be able to change the profile more but this does add more cost. A cam made from a fresh blank is the best but most expensive option. Regrinds can work quite well though as I found in my G16B.

I agree, I found the general lugability of the motor better, the regrind shifted the sweet spot of the motor to a little lower RPM, combined with some headwork and extractors made it a pretty happy little donk.

On the topic of cams. What are the options for OEM or aftermarket stock cams for 16V EFI G16B's? Especially in Perth metro.

PCRman wrote:On the topic of cams. What are the options for OEM or aftermarket stock cams for 16V EFI G16B's? Especially in Perth metro.

Camshaft engineering is the only mob i know that does custom cams.

if you could find specs on oem or aftermarket cam you could get a grind done there no worries i would say

nicbeer wrote:

PCRman wrote:On the topic of cams. What are the options for OEM or aftermarket stock cams for 16V EFI G16B's? Especially in Perth metro.

Camshaft engineering is the only mob i know that does custom cams.

if you could find specs on oem or aftermarket cam you could get a grind done there no worries i would say

Link here for any one who is interested in specs.

G16B
http://www.tighecams.com.au/SUZ16VSOHC.htm

Swift GTI
http://www.tighecams.com.au/GTI%20HYDRAULIC.htm

Haven't heard of the company before but the 1134C cam for G16B looks nice IF I've interpreted the specs correctly. I'd be interested to know if a stock cam could be re-ground to those specs.

EDIT. Just got off the blower CEC is no more. Southside engines are getting the referrals now, grinding cost is $15 per lobe. I also priced lifters thinking its a good idea to re-new cam and lifters at the same time. $39 per lifter X16 = $624 thats like 1/2 an air locker.
I wonder if new lifters are realllllly needed!

i didnt in the cam i installed into my g13.

also good luck getting email back from tighe cams, i am still waiting...

usually when this comes up, its like extractors, bigger pipe etc... on their own each makes a tiny difference, but when you put it all together you might see a notable improvement. still, for the money spent you could just throw a 1.6 at it.

It would be good to put a 1.6 (couldn't believe the quotes i got when i went looking for one!) in it but we already have the 1.3+gbox (got very cheap too) which should punt the zook along way better than the original 1litre does.

So the general consensus is that a cam regrind is alot better than the standard cam and will give enough power for the money?

Kitika wrote:

usually when this comes up, its like extractors, bigger pipe etc... on their own each makes a tiny difference, but when you put it all together you might see a notable improvement. still, for the money spent you could just throw a 1.6 at it.

It would be good to put a 1.6 (couldn't believe the quotes i got when i went looking for one!) in it but we already have the 1.3+gbox (got very cheap too) which should punt the zook along way better than the original 1litre does.

So the general consensus is that a cam regrind is alot better than the standard cam and will give enough power for the money?

I would still go a bigger exhaust anyway as the 1ltr will be too small and some extractors to suit and yes i would do it if it was me,

Just one more thing what could happen if I don't replace the lifters?

nicbeer wrote:also good luck getting email back from tighe cams, i am still waiting...

sod emails. I'll call on a work phone monday.

If anyone PM's me part numbers for a tighe cam I'll ask for a price.

Kitika wrote:Just one more thing what could happen if I don't replace the lifters?

If theyre farked, then it would run rough, excessive wear, excessive noise, etc...
Buy a spare engine and see if you can salvage enough good ones, engines are cheap nuff.

The more info you give Tighe about your setup and what you want the better the profile they will do for you. They do more than just what you see on their site.

Kitika wrote:Just one more thing what could happen if I don't replace the lifters?

the 1.3 8 valve engine doesnt have lifters so dont worry.

also give waggot cams a call , i have dealt with both tighe and waggot cams . i rang waggot one day for some tech specs , and i got a huge surprise when the man himself , peter waggot ,answered the phone and was able to answer my query right there right then on the spot.

a remanufactured or reground cam can not only change how much lift there is on the valve , the openings and closings can be changed to make power in different ranges of engine rpm . not only can you change duration of valve lift , you can change the lobe centre position.

also an option is a vernier timing gear , they are mostly used in a twin cam applications , but are also used in single cam applications to dial the cam in so that it opens and closes at the exact specs the manufacturer made them.

you may ask the question why you would need to dial them in if they were made for your engine ... this is simple. some of our engines are up to 20 years old and older , the cylinder heads have been shaved once or twice before , sometimes blocks have been decked (had a slight machine to make flat again) . Every bit of head and block deck material removed will retard the cam , as the timing belt tensioner puts tension on the left side of the belt , it tends to retard the camshaft slightly. what this does is makes the openings and closings of the valves slightly earlier than the specs , so to make the most of the cam an adjustable timing gear is used.

just point out a lot of the later model gears have two settings, may not be as good as the vernier option but if you know what the 'other' setting is you may be able to use it.

like on a gti pulley (either intake or exhaust) there is a 0 degree and a 4 advance. so say you shaved the head enough to retard by 2 degrees (random example) then using the above pulley you have the option of setting at 2 degrees retard or 2 degrees advance. might not be the 'sweet spot' but one might be favourable to the other

nicbeer wrote:i didnt in the cam i installed into my g13.

also good luck getting email back from tighe cams, i am still waiting...

i am still waiting too.

wouldnt mind getting a cam for my g16b. can you get ajustable timing too?


EDIT-yup you can http://www.suzisport.com/shop/
cam is 900bucks! btw:shock:


Get the most out of your 16 valve engine with a Adjustable Vernier Camshaft gear. Timing increments are marked on the gears for easy adjustment. Full fitting instructions are included.

for the 1134C I'm interested in it will re-grind from a stocker for about $160 plus postage in both directions

To go to the more aggressive ones does indeed up the price to >$500

A brand new one is about $850.

I can't have my Vit off the road for the time it would take to remove, post, grind, return and re-fit so I might hunt around for a 2nd hand one and send that.

PCRman wrote:for the 1134C I'm interested in it will re-grind from a stocker for about $160 plus postage in both directions

To go to the more aggressive ones does indeed up the price to >$500

A brand new one is about $850.

I can't have my Vit off the road for the time it would take to remove, post, grind, return and re-fit so I might hunt around for a 2nd hand one and send that.

I would look at a 2nd hand 1.3 or 1.6 head and get the whole lot done with decent valve job etc at the same time ..

mmm, heads only 40K old ATM, cleaned, machined, new stem seals re-seated valves, timing etc. Interesting the mechanic who did the head did not notice that cam was worn. Guess I'll give him the benifit of the doubt and say it wasn't worn at the time.

PCRman wrote:mmm, heads only 40K old ATM, cleaned, machined, new stem seals re-seated valves, timing etc. Interesting the mechanic who did the head did not notice that cam was worn. Guess I'll give him the benifit of the doubt and say it wasn't worn at the time.

i dont know what is scarier, him thinking it will be alright or that its worn that much in 40ks

for the 1134C I'm interested in it will re-grind from a stocker for about $160 plus postage in both directions

To go to the more aggressive ones does indeed up the price to >$500

A brand new one is about $850.

I can't have my Vit off the road for the time it would take to remove, post, grind, return and re-fit so I might hunt around for a 2nd hand one and send that.

You can get new billet cams imported from the U.S. cheaper than that! $160 isn't to bad but It all starts to add up with postage.
For $160US (plus post) you can get one of these http://www.rocky-road.com/isky.html
Dunno if they make them for the 1.6 but...

Kitika wrote:For $160US (plus post) you can get one of these http://www.rocky-road.com/isky.html
Dunno if they make them for the 1.6 but...

Very nice, the torquer would suit me nicely. It doesn't have anything about a 16 valve cam and I suppose I could ask about one, but did you see the bit at the bottom about a 4-6 month wait

i got a cam done at tighe 4 my sierra 1150 cost me $110, with some other mods i can do 120km in 5 gear now

Kitika wrote:

for the 1134C I'm interested in it will re-grind from a stocker for about $160 plus postage in both directions

To go to the more aggressive ones does indeed up the price to >$500

A brand new one is about $850.

I can't have my Vit off the road for the time it would take to remove, post, grind, return and re-fit so I might hunt around for a 2nd hand one and send that.

You can get new billet cams imported from the U.S. cheaper than that! $160 isn't to bad but It all starts to add up with postage.
For $160US (plus post) you can get one of these http://www.rocky-road.com/isky.html
Dunno if they make them for the 1.6 but...

No, they don't do the 16v 1.6 and as far as I'm concerned why would you want to pay USD$160 + freight for a regrind from the States when you already know you can get it cheaper here.