Outer Limits 4x4 Board

getting ready to turbo my 3L luxy and contimplating adding front mount into the list.

just wondering if anyone has turbo'd there car and then later on added an intercooler, How much lag did it create?

worth while doing? RESULTS???...

Cheers, HTH

I fitted a front mount to the 60 about 6 months ago. You can notice the lag a little but really not enough to worry about.

depends a lot on the setup. what IC is used, what turbo, boost, even what gearing the vechile has.
generaly speaking the cooling offsets the restriction and volume of the IC.

hopefully theres someone here with a good setup you can copy.

What are the advantages of an intercooler? Can u safely run higher boost? Will it make the turbo run more efficently? Will it make a difference to performance without turning up boost/fuel?

Cheers, HTH

I did a top mount Water - air intercooler (out of a subaru) on my 2.4 with a ct20 toyo Turbo
and it was noticable but when it Boosted it boosted like a party in your pants Prolly 2-300rpm later only before and after Dynos can show it

Ok just so you know,

The intercooler alone will not give you any performance increase what so ever, it will probably reduce performance some what.

Having an intercooler installed however will allow you to run more boost and more fuel, keeping the intake temps the same and EGTs down.

An intercooler gives best benefits on setups that are going above 10psi and are staying rich.

Boost alone will not give high temps, fuel is the catalyst.

Good luck

Z()LTAN wrote:Ok just so you know,

The intercooler alone will not give you any performance increase what so ever, it will probably reduce performance some what.

Having an intercooler installed however will allow you to run more boost and more fuel, keeping the intake temps the same and EGTs down.

An intercooler gives best benefits on setups that are going above 10psi and are staying rich.

Boost alone will not give high temps, fuel is the catalyst.

Good luck

Took me abit to work this statement out
Depends When you want your Power sorry it will delay power on a small boost turbo as it did on mine
But It did crate a steeper Boost curve ,You could feel it in the cabin and could see it on a dyno graph
Now Needing Boost early for 4wheel driving the delay I would count as Loss of performance but if I didnt I would say it was an up grade.
To say they arent worth it under 10psi is rubbish
You been in a charade turbo their like riding a over excited corgie
The last sentance Im not the riddler to work that one out

Fuel isnt allways the Catalyst
You can get high temps with and engine running Normaly
Fuel is part of the equation

intercooler can give more performance but nothing like more fuel does.
it simply means more air volume goes in, which means fuel will burn better.

having the boost "come on" later is not lag.

Z()LTAN wrote:Ok just so you know,

The intercooler alone will not give you any performance increase what so ever, it will probably reduce performance some what.

so if the i/c drops intake temps, that doesnt give any increase in performance whatsoever?

macca81 wrote:

Z()LTAN wrote:Ok just so you know,

The intercooler alone will not give you any performance increase what so ever, it will probably reduce performance some what.

so if the i/c drops intake temps, that doesnt give any increase in performance whatsoever?

The i/c will lower intake temps which will result in better performance.
I took the following from a page that relates to Corky bell who wrote a really good book about turbo's and intercooling.

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/t ... html#FAQ_1

What is the purpose and/or advantage of an intercooler?
The purpose of the intercooler is to remove the heat in the air charge that the turbo/supercharger puts into the charge when compressing it. There are two advantages: Reducing the heat in the air charge increases the charge density (more molecules of air per cubic foot), thus increasing the potential for making more power. Reducing the heat decreases the tendency of the combustion process to knock (detonation).




How does the intercooler affect the power output of the engine?
Power is dependent on the density of the air charge. By decreasing the temperature the intercooler increases air charge density, therefore, the power is increased. Typically, the magnitude of the increase will be between 10 and 20% for the average (street) boost pressures.

So Does intercooling allow u to run more boost and fuel without lifting exhaust temps? Does it mean that the engine reliablity will stay intact?
Or can the extra boost/pressure still harm the engine although not raising exhaust temps??.. Example, 10pound boost/ fuel to suit/ no intercooler/ max exhaust temp= 450..... 14pound boost/ fuel to suit/ intercooled/ max exhaust temp = 450c

SAME ENGINE RELIABLITY?

Intercooling will lower the exhaust temp, because you are suppyling cooler air to the intake side therefore creating a lower internal temp during combustion.

I understand that but just because the exhaust temps don't go up will it keep it's reliablity with higher boost/fuel

cheers, HTH

In theory lowering the intake temp will lower the EGT but I can guarantee that once that air goes throw the combustion process and with extra additional fuel to match the extra boost which itself creates extra heat the EGT will be very similar, it may be only a few degress different in temp which means SFA, It is the fuel on a diesel engine which raises EGT, the richer it is the hotter it will run.

A front mount intercooler on an aftermarket turbo'd L series diesel may be ok at highway speeds but be prepared for overheating dramas as it is a decent restriction in front of the already stressed radiator plus at slow speed a front mount and its plumbing will get sum shocking heat soak from the dirty cast iron oil burner.

B4 deciding to convert to 3RZ I was also goin to use a subaru WAIC setup, IMO a water to air setup is better as it allows less restriction on engine cooling, less plumbing, less lag and is far more resistant to heatsoak at slowspeeds.

Cheers

tweak'e wrote:intercooler can give more performance but nothing like more fuel does.
it simply means more air volume goes in, which means fuel will burn better.

having the boost "come on" later is not lag.

Geepers

Sorry lets be real here more fuel dosent mean more power
Are you Pulling your facts from Thin air or intercooled air
Do you Realise how an engine works or Have some of you forgot
Adding more fuel will work to a point
More Air in + more fuel + better exit = more power
Take anyone of those out and youll get more limited power increase
You also have to Add and engine set up to take it.
As for that last load of Rubbish
Lag us the time it takes for the turbo to spool up
So I hope I type this slowly enough for you If a Turbo spools at a certain time or rev then you add alonger distance It has to push the same air volume
then it will take longer to spool as in later

ok mate get off ur high horse and get sum manors about u

In particular we r talkin about the L series diesel engine which isnt the most fined tuned of diesel engine by todays standard, when fitting a turbo to them u will mechanically raise fuel delivery by the advance screw on the fuel pump, ther is no real way to accurately tune other then monitor EGT with various fuel delivery settings on a dyno, Hardly anyone does this and just wings it with the half a turn method which is fine. You can run a safeish lean fuel level which will suit or u can run a rich mixture which will hav slightly more power at the same boost pressure but a higher EGT which will sacrifice engine life.

What i stated explained how a longer intake tract will increase lag where as a WAIC has shorter tract so less.

a1 mech wrote:ok mate get off ur high horse and get sum manors about u

In particular we r talkin about the L series diesel engine which isnt the most fined tuned of diesel engine by todays standard, when fitting a turbo to them u will mechanically raise fuel delivery by the advance screw on the fuel pump, ther is no real way to accurately tune other then monitor EGT with various fuel delivery settings on a dyno, Hardly anyone does this and just wings it with the half a turn method which is fine. You can run a safeish lean fuel level which will suit or u can run a rich mixture which will hav slightly more power at the same boost pressure but a higher EGT which will sacrifice engine life.

What i stated explained how a longer intake tract will increase lag where as a WAIC has shorter tract so less.

Wow how bout You Bite ME
Here I read How much Lag would an intercooler create
Idiot

And Looking Back I cant see A Single thing You Posted that I replyed to So You get some manners

Oh did You mean The Bit were Your babaling on about Fitting A turbo
In a Thread about Fitting A Intercooler

Lowering the induction air temp with an intercooler does not take that reduced temp away from the EGTs.

Air/fuel ratio alone determines EGT's

The way the intercooler reduces EGT's is by condensing the intake air charge, giving that volume of air charge more oxygen molecules.

The more oxygen molecules in the air charge the more diesel can be burnt properly.

The improperly burnt diesel is what raises EGT's



To show this working, increase your fuel setting and test EGT's. Then raise the boost setting and test EGT's.
You will find after raising boost (adding more oxygen content to the air charge in the cylinder - leaning out) the EGT's will lower.

I have just performed this myself, i was running 10psi and added a fair bit of fuel on my 1HZ, i would hit 550deg post fairly easily.
I have now upped the boost to 15psi with no fuel increase and i am seeing a max of 400deg.

beinthemud wrote:And Looking Back I cant see A Single thing You Posted that I replyed to So You get some manners

Oh did You mean The Bit were Your babaling on about Fitting A turbo
In a Thread about Fitting A Intercooler

"as for that last load of rubbish" may suggest u refering to my post, dont take my comment to heart, take note of the wink! but ur entitled to ur opinion mate

Z()LTAN wrote:Lowering the induction air temp with an intercooler does not take that reduced temp away from the EGTs.

Air/fuel ratio alone determines EGT's

The way the intercooler reduces EGT's is by condensing the intake air charge, giving that volume of air charge more oxygen molecules.

The more oxygen molecules in the air charge the more diesel can be burnt properly.

The improperly burnt diesel is what raises EGT's






To show this working, increase your fuel setting and test EGT's. Then raise the boost setting and test EGT's.
You will find after raising boost (adding more oxygen content to the air charge in the cylinder - leaning out) the EGT's will lower.

I have just performed this myself, i was running 10psi and added a fair bit of fuel on my 1HZ, i would hit 550deg post fairly easily.
I have now upped the boost to 15psi with no fuel increase and i am seeing a max of 400deg.

Well put
Exhaust Smoke Dosent mean More Power As Some Diesel People seem to Think
But To The Best Benefit Of an Intercooler Its Best TO work Intake Combustion chamber Ie valves ,Pistons blah blah
Then Letting it Escape
As for the answer To THE topic of this Thread
There is an Equation and that also depends on Size Of Intercooler which
Not Mant experts Covered Smaller tend to be Bottom end AND larger top
Sit Down Work out Flow rates in and Out
Prolly Trial and error is best And A Dyno Place you trust to find put What suits you

Haha thread becoming a battle of knowledge.

In the end personally would you guys intercool your turbo 3L??
(ct20, 10 pound).. I write this so you have something to base your answer on.

Don't think about it to much just answer the Q.

Cheers PPL

HTH wrote:Haha thread becoming a battle of knowledge.

In the end personally would you guys intercool your turbo 3L??
(ct20, 10 pound).. I write this so you have something to base your answer on.

Don't think about it to much just answer the Q.

Cheers PPL

with 10psi and a CT20 I wud be looking at some form of intercooler altho it isnt 100% neccessary.

How do you drive it HTH?

What kind of 4bying do you do? (slow, fast, just playing)?

a1 mech wrote:

beinthemud wrote:And Looking Back I cant see A Single thing You Posted that I replyed to So You get some manners

Oh did You mean The Bit were Your babaling on about Fitting A turbo
In a Thread about Fitting A Intercooler

"as for that last load of rubbish" may suggest u refering to my post, dont take my comment to heart, take note of the wink! but ur entitled to ur opinion mate

Ah Missed that one mate Sorry
I didnt Disagree with what you said Just the Having a crack at me bit
Didnt think I was Trying to be rude Just Trying to get the facts through
When some things are said that could be Wrong
and Im Not right alot of times But try to be factual and Base What I say With some sort of Facts To Back it Up not I heard someone say once not that Im saying it relates to you or anything

Hi all...I know that my vehicle goes better the colder the temprature is.So surely an Intercooler has a similar effect.

I do all types of wheeling. But I do alot of slow stuff (steep hill climbs etc)
so I was looking towards front mount because top mount will get to much heat from the engine when not moving quickly. Not to mention, thermofan, body lift etc.

I guess like most things I'll have to do it by trial and error. Thanks everyone for your input!! HTH

if thats the case mate, a smallish water to air PWR barrel with a larger radiator in the tray

water to air is ur best bet then, u will be surprised just how much heat the air/air intercooler even if front mounted will attract, the plumbing for it will be to hot to touch if not insulated. With a water/air setup and a decent radiator for it ther will be next to no build up or soak. Id use alloy plumbing also as it will dissperse heat faster then stainless or mild steel.

ther was sum good waic kits on ebay when I was looking that consisted of just about everything u need.

Cheers