Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day.
This is what's in my 1963 J200 Jeep. I'm pretty sure this is not a Jeep gearbox/transfercase. The motor is going to be swapped to a Isuzu 6bd1, so to find or make an adapter plate I'd like to know what gearbox I have.
It's a 4 speed and has a dellow bell housing that says 'Chrysler 6 & v8' then there is a homemade looking plate bolted to the original Tornado motor.
I'm also interested if anyone knows of a suitable adaptor plate or knows of any similar swaps or any suggestions at all.
Thanks
http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm29 ... p%20motor/

I have no idea what it is but I'd start by asking Dellow.
Could it be a Dodge or Inter transfer?

that transfer kinda looks similar to the split transfer on my 40series.. including PTO cover..

landcruiser 4spd and transfer

Cool conversion - make sure you post pics!!!

The 4BD1 is well known for eating gearboxes in landies, so the 6BD1 with 2 extra pistons would be much worse. I would use an isuzu gearbox personally (then you can have a 6-speed as well!).

You will need some serious suspension with 500kg of motor in there!!!

Ok, thanks everyone.
Looks like Landcruiser 4 speed to me too.
I've also learnt the 6db1 has a bell housing pattern SAE3.
Anybody know if this is a common pattern?
Anybody know anything about the chrysler pattern?
I'm sent of some enquires to Dellow and Castlemaine Rod shop but don't think they'll have an adaptor as this is such a rare swap.
I'll have both engines out by the weekend so maybe when they are side by side things will clear up.
I'm sooo looking forward to having this motor in, the old motor just wasn't up to the job. I'll be taking pics for ya'all.
Also did I post the pics correctly?
Cheers.

Jeepo wrote:Ok, thanks everyone.
Looks like Landcruiser 4 speed to me too.
I've also learnt the 6db1 has a bell housing pattern SAE3.
Anybody know if this is a common pattern?
Anybody know anything about the chrysler pattern?
I'm sent of some enquires to Dellow and Castlemaine Rod shop but don't think they'll have an adaptor as this is such a rare swap.
I'll have both engines out by the weekend so maybe when they are side by side things will clear up.
I'm sooo looking forward to having this motor in, the old motor just wasn't up to the job. I'll be taking pics for ya'all.
Also did I post the pics correctly?
Cheers.

The 4BD1 has a bellhousing that is ALMOST SAE#3 but not quite. The isiuz is metric for a start, and I also thing it is clocked slightly as well. - which would be an issue if mating a non-clocked bellhousing.

I assume the 6BD1 would be the same.

Bush65 (John) has a very nice and strong isuzu 6-speed behind his 4BD1T, mated to an ATLAS t-case.

Maybe you could get the matching Isuzu 5- or 6-speed manual or 4-speed auto and then work out the transfer case from there... I assume there's more than enough length in the wheelbase.

Maybe you can find a way to keep using your toyo transfer case. But you'd have to be able to find something.

Just from google these guys look like they've wrecked some 4x4 trucks with the 6BD1 in them: http://www.soltoggiobros.com.au/Parts/I ... KLIST.html

So there would have to be some around. What you save on adaptor bellhousings etc could help pay for a nicer gearbox.

Just some thoughts.

Soltoggios have a lot of stock, but they also know how to charge for it!

There are 4x4 NPR and FSR trucks which have a 5/6 speed and a t-case. The t-case is only around 2:1 reduction though apparently.

However you get 5:1 or 6:1 first gear with the box!!!

If I ever replace my gearbox I will be fitting an Isuzu 6-speed and a divorced Land Rover LT230 t-case. IRC some of the nissan (MQ?) t-cases were also divorced from the factory? That might be a good option as well?

ISUZUROVER wrote:Soltoggios have a lot of stock, but they also know how to charge for it!

There are 4x4 NPR and FSR trucks which have a 5/6 speed and a t-case. The t-case is only around 2:1 reduction though apparently.

However you get 5:1 or 6:1 first gear with the box!!!

If I ever replace my gearbox I will be fitting an Isuzu 6-speed and a divorced Land Rover LT230 t-case. IRC some of the nissan (MQ?) t-cases were also divorced from the factory? That might be a good option as well?

There are also some that can be made divorced... GQ? Hilux? I can't recall. I don't think it would be hard to sort out a transfer case one way or another.

Soltoggios was just a place I found at random, I guess I was just thinking that it shows that 4-speed auto, and 5- or 6-speed manual boxes should be easy enough to find, no adaptor needed.

Atlas can be had divorced too.

I don't understand the desire to undergearbox conversions- nissan boxes behind LS motors..... hilux boxes behind, well, everything.... and a cruiser box behind a truck motor? have a look at the box isuzu put behind the 6BD and then see whether a cruiser box can do the job.

I'd be using a isuzu auto with an atlas, divorced rover transfer, divorced NP205.... or MQ if I really had to.

Not having a go, just my 2C. I think it's easier to divorce mount a transfer than make an bellhousing adapter/clutch etc work.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:I think it's easier to divorce mount a transfer than make an bellhousing adapter/clutch etc work.

Amen. And especially when the gearbox you've got is a 4-speed manual.

Does it still have dana diffs in it ?

Pumpkin should be on the passengers side ?
Jap transfer leads to the drivers side

There was an allison auto in two of our early npr's these where a quick setup especially from the lights !

we have a later npr450 sitec 190 long somthing like that , the auto in this truck is nothing but amazing
its no bigger then a th700 / 350 ect , yet it is in a small garbage compactor rated up to ten ton , stop start hundreds of times a day, two
shifts a day seven days a week galston gorge ,crosslands reserve
couple hundred thousand kays of torture , and dosnt slip still changes smick, unreal i just havent figured out what it is yet
Rarely gets beaten from the lights also !


Steve- reminds me of when every body was throwing red motors in early holdens ,ek's ect infront of worn out grey boxs

While I'm all for somebody having a go, I think the 6 will be hard on the driveline if you use the right foot too much. For some additional info you might have a look at www.IH8MUD.com. In the diesel section there is a guy doing a swap with a big 4 cyl Isuzu into a 60 series. The gearbox info and fotos may be of some use to you if you can get hold of the parts he is talking about..

If you go ahead with the conversion I'm sure there will be lots of people who want you to take lots of fotos and document what you are up to on this forum.

There is also a short vid on utube of a bloke with an Isuzu 6 in a 45ser Toyota, but I can't help with the exact title of the vid. I also don't know it his buildup is documented somewhere.. good luck..

Gwagensteve wrote: I don't understand the desire to undergearbox conversions-

Well said.

Jeepo wrote:Ok, thanks everyone.
Looks like Landcruiser 4 speed to me too.
I've also learnt the 6db1 has a bell housing pattern SAE3.
Anybody know if this is a common pattern?
Anybody know anything about the chrysler pattern?
I'm sent of some enquires to Dellow and Castlemaine Rod shop but don't think they'll have an adaptor as this is such a rare swap.
I'll have both engines out by the weekend so maybe when they are side by side things will clear up.
I'm sooo looking forward to having this motor in, the old motor just wasn't up to the job. I'll be taking pics for ya'all.
Also did I post the pics correctly?
Cheers.

Some of the 6BD1's have an SAE #3 housing, some of them won't. It depends on the original application the engine was built for. But the engine bellhousings are easily changed.

Just get the hydraulic pumps from a hitachi EX200 (same engine) and go full hydrostatic.

I think you need more information.

This is Jeepo. I'm Matt (just the in between guy).


In front of Jeepo is a gas powered fire breathin lotus flower.
We're shootin for a 5.9l chip oil burnin circus rig.
We got 3 weeks.

But yes, the gearbox could be a weak link and will probably be upgraded if it breaks. False economy? Not if you either have to do it the cheap way or not at all. (Familiar anyone)
I found a business in Kunda Park to match the engine to gearbox. So out comes the Jeeps heart.
Anybody know how I would move the oil filter? It's going to sit right against the steering box.

It would probably be cheaper to do it right the first time...

Another issue - if your box has a 1:1 top gear and your t-case is also 1:1, you will need diffs that are about 3:1 to have a reasonable cruising speed on the highway.

On the oil filter. I assume your setup looks like this?


You can either space it out to a suitable position like this:


Or fit the upward facing filter setup as used on the 4BD1s that were fitted to land rovers. HERE is a link but you will probably have to log onto AULRO to view it:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/i ... engine.jpg

EDIT: There is lots of good 4BD1 tech on aulro.com which would be relevant to your 6BD1.

It looks like you have a whole truck there with a 6BD1 fitted. Why not use the truck gearbox as well, then you just need to track down a divorced t-case (not very $) and get a shaft made to connect them.

ISUZUROVER wrote:It looks like you have a whole truck there with a 6BD1 fitted. Why not use the truck gearbox as well, then you just need to track down a divorced t-case (not very $) and get a shaft made to connect them.

Go RWD for now you mean, and get 4WD happening again when time and money allow?

chimpboy wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:It looks like you have a whole truck there with a 6BD1 fitted. Why not use the truck gearbox as well, then you just need to track down a divorced t-case (not very $) and get a shaft made to connect them.

Go RWD for now you mean, and get 4WD happening again when time and money allow?

That is an option, but what I meant was - just sell the toyota box and t-case (unless it can be fitted divorced), and buy a nice strong divorced t-case.

The only issue with the ISUZU boxes is they are rod-shift. So you need to adapt a cable shift lever from a small car (or similar). I think Bush65 has a corolla(?) setup.

Are you guys really sure a Landcruiser box won't cut it?
But I am at the deciding stage so this is great.
Here's what I get when I google up the specs for 6bd1
150 - 160 Hp
375Nm Tq
Not huge is it. Lots of v8's would have much higher Hp & similar Tq.
Didn't Rothy put a turbo cummins into a shorty?
We've all seen WAY bigger Hp & Tq put through these boxs with no problem. So is it just because this engine came from a truck not a car?
The main reason I'm leaning towards not using the Isuzu box (which I have) is the extra fabrication to fit it. It has levers not a stick on the top. It has mounting points at the top of the gearbox bell housing that would poke into the footwells, and has no other mounting points.
If I use the Isuzu box, I do like the idea of using the it as RWD only for the short term, that would at least make it affordable for now.
Also do you think it would it cheaper to change the ratio in the transfercase or change both diff centers?
Thanks for the ideas.

Jeepo wrote:Are you guys really sure a Landcruiser box won't cut it?

Yes.

Jeepo wrote: But I am at the deciding stage so this is great.
Here's what I get when I google up the specs for 6bd1
150 - 160 Hp
375Nm Tq
Not huge is it. Lots of v8's would have much higher Hp & similar Tq.
Didn't Rothy put a turbo cummins into a shorty?
We've all seen WAY bigger Hp & Tq put through these boxs with no problem. So is it just because this engine came from a truck not a car?
The main reason I'm leaning towards not using the Isuzu box (which I have) is the extra fabrication to fit it. It has levers not a stick on the top. It has mounting points at the top of the gearbox bell housing that would poke into the footwells, and has no other mounting points.
If I use the Isuzu box, I do like the idea of using the it as RWD only for the short term, that would at least make it affordable for now.
Also do you think it would it cheaper to change the ratio in the transfercase or change both diff centers?
Thanks for the ideas.

Diesels provide power and torque in a much more violent way than a V8 petrol.

Long term changing both diff ratios is the go, are there any overdrive transfer cases?
If you go 2wd now, then you only need to change one right now.

KiwiBacon wrote:
Diesels provide power and torque in a much more violent way than a V8 petrol.

Ok, but thats confusing me, I'm seen some violent v8's. What's the go?

Long term changing both diff ratios is the go, are there any overdrive transfer cases?
If you go 2wd now, then you only need to change one right now.

I seem to recall someone changing the transfer case gears but maybe thats just low range.

Any suggestions on how I could mount the Isuzu box?
Anybody got more info on how I could setup gear selection?
I'll take some pics today.

These gearbox bellhousing mounts would be poking into our footspace. Any ideas?
I'll post pics of the gear selectors later, but basicly they had rods connected to them that went forwards.

Jeepo wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:
Diesels provide power and torque in a much more violent way than a V8 petrol.

Ok, but thats confusing me, I'm seen some violent v8's. What's the go?

V8's have 4 pulses per revolution and work with much lower cylinder pressures. Power delivery is smoother.

The 4 cyl version of this engine shags gearboxes, the 6 cyl will be smoother but still more violent than a petrol v8 with similar torque. Further, the 4 cyl version is capable of more than 500Nm just by turning screws. The 6 could do 800Nm, wouldn't you rather pick a gearbox that can take it?

Cut those mounting horns off, use the mounting holes on the side of the engine and find something to mount two pads off the back of the gearbox.

KiwiBacon wrote:

Jeepo wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:
Diesels provide power and torque in a much more violent way than a V8 petrol.

Ok, but thats confusing me, I'm seen some violent v8's. What's the go?

V8's have 4 pulses per revolution and work with much lower cylinder pressures. Power delivery is smoother.

The 4 cyl version of this engine shags gearboxes, the 6 cyl will be smoother but still more violent than a petrol v8 with similar torque. Further, the 4 cyl version is capable of more than 500Nm just by turning screws. The 6 could do 800Nm, wouldn't you rather pick a gearbox that can take it?

Cut those mounting horns off, use the mounting holes on the side of the engine and find something to mount two pads off the back of the gearbox.

What Dougal said.

For example, the ZF 4HP22/24 auto comes fitted to vehicles with up to a 4.6L petrol V8 and will happily handle up to a 5 or 6L V8. The 3.9L 4BD1(T) - your engine with 2 cylinders chopped off - eats it for breakfast.

So this 6 speed Isuzu box is good? I was gunna not use it!
What do I do with them levery things?

Jeepo wrote:


So this 6 speed Isuzu box is good? I was gunna not use it!
What do I do with them levery things?

The lever on the top is your gear lever moving side to side.
The lever on the side is your gear lever moving forwards and backwards.

It may take a little turning input shafts and counting rotations to work out where all the gears are. From there a cable gear lever will work fine. You may have to adjust the lever length to match the gear lever stroke.

I'm not an Isuzu expert. But if I had a choice between a good four-speed manual box, and a much stronger six-speed manual box, plus I could save the hassle of mating the stronger six-speed to a different engine, it would probably be a complete no-brainer (provided the six-speed physically fits in the available space).

How are the gears controlled in the original truck?

I reckon if you just go RWD for now as Stage One, and worry about a transfer case as Stage Two, you will be heading towards having an unusual and very cool vehicle.