Outer Limits 4x4 Board

A mate of mine needs a bit of advice.
He has a 98 2.5turbo deisel Defender, has been told the motor is toast. Not exactly sure what the go is but it was supposedly rebuilt for the previous owner only 40000k ago.

Options are a rebuild at $8000
or
Rover V8?

For the V8 swap, we are thinking about buying a Range Rover for about $5g? so that he has something to work out of till he has the time and facilities to swap it.

Is a Rangie the best donor?
Will it bolt up to his box etc or just swap the box and transfer?
Whats the go with the dash guages?
Would probably go straight gas for the moment so is it worth getting a later model fuel injected donk or not.

Thanks fellas.

I would go for a disco 3.9ltr incected, you can pick one up for easily under $4000, getting really cheap these days and the 3.9 is a great motor.
He will most likely have a 5speed r380 g'box in his defer, that would be the box to use, shouldn't be any probs mating them togethor, just have to play with bell housings (possibly).

CHEERS TIM.

box won't bolt up, diesel gearboxes have different bellhousing pattern and a bigger input shaft (at the spigot bush). If you use a 3.9 powered disco as a donor, should be able to pick up one with an r380 Gearbox in it, and use that. Keep the defender transfer though, as it should have a 1.411 highrange gear instead of the rangie/disco 1.22 (and sometimes 1.1ish?) Unless of course he's not running bigger tyres, and wants to do less revs down the highway, in which case use the disco transfer and give me the defender one ....

Not sure what you do with the engine mounts, may need to cut the existing ones off both the Defender chassis and the disco chassis, dangle the engine/g/box assembly in the bay with the gearbox mounts bolted into place, and weld the disco mounts into place. Unless someone else knows a better way (to be honest I can't remember how the tdi engines are mounted, I'm just seem to remember they're different to V8s.....)

What do you mean whats the go with the dash guages? Should be able to just hook them up, if they don't work, swap the diesel sender/s into the V8.....

Carby engines are 3.5, and all probably pretty tired by now, making the later 3.9 a better choice in my book.... If you don't want the injection, can probably sell the complete setup to someone who wants to convert.

Disco is probably a better choice than a Rangie as a donor, because from memory the Rangies never got the r380 gearbox?

rover v8 what one rrc or p38
other option for donor is a tdi disco or
v8 disco
Imo if you do change to rover v8
keep r380 box and def t/f box
nas model defenders had rover v8's
so would think that conversion was possible

Great info guys.
Could work out OK and be a better unit in the end.
He has been talking about using the Disco transfer so you may have a deal....He only runs standard tyres.

Why not just get a second had 300Tdi - usually sell for about $4-5K

Try TR Spares in Lonsdale SA.

Garry

Spotted this on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Land-Rover-Disco ... C294%3A200

another tdi bites the dust............. let me guess, he tows with his rig right?

Serg

Mate i cannot beleive anyone would consider droping a V8 petrol motor in place of a 2.5 TD5 (this is the motor we are talking about isnt it).
I would look around for a good low K second hand donk.
Gee and i thought Sam (def90) was the only tool that would do this. Although Sam had a useless 4bd1

uninformed wrote:another tdi bites the dust............. let me guess, he tows with his rig right?

Serg

BBBWWWWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Either that or he is unhappy with the fuel economy from it

uninformed wrote:another tdi bites the dust............. let me guess, he tows with his rig right?

Serg

Bzzzz....Nup.

nottie wrote:Mate i cannot beleive anyone would consider droping a V8 petrol motor in place of a 2.5 TD5 (this is the motor we are talking about isnt it).
I would look around for a good low K second hand donk.
:

The motor that died was less than inspireing, so we are just guaging what they would be like off that one...I think he was expecting it to perform a bit better than what it did. But that may be related to why it died.
I still dont know exactly what was wrong with it or why it died.
The main reason for us thinking to do it this way is that he needs to be back on the road, in any way possible.

The setup on ebay looks good

well it died without towing....kinda says something for tdi's i killed mine at 230k, full service history etc...spun crank to conrod bearings...ended up putting a 2.8tgv in it...........if i were to do it over i would look for a sbc plus maybe an auto....for the coin i spent im sure it could have been done with a crate motor and engineered

Serg

if looked after they will do 400 000+.

nottie wrote:Mate i cannot beleive anyone would consider droping a V8 petrol motor in place of a 2.5 TD5 (this is the motor we are talking about isnt it).
I would look around for a good low K second hand donk.
Gee and i thought Sam (def90) was the only tool that would do this. Although Sam had a useless 4bd1

thats not very nice young notnot, i still have my TD5 when economy and comfort is needed - ah wait thats right you bummed a lift off me earlier in the year for 2000k's or so.

Hay nothing against them at all they are a brilliant motor in my opinion!
But i wouldnt swap one out to put a old teq v8 in!

Surely you can find a replacement tdi for far less than the $8k for a full recon!

I see a lot more options between the expensive rebuild and time consuming, fuel guzzling V8 replacement.

TimRover wrote:if looked after they will do 400 000+.

difine looked after!

Serg

uninformed wrote:

TimRover wrote:if looked after they will do 400 000+.

difine looked after!

Serg

oil and filter changes every 5000kms (using good products), general maintnance and checks often.
I spose bigger tyres and more boost and fuel will effect the engine life abit.
I should have mensioned above alot of luck is needed with these motor's lol
This isn't coming from personal experiance but i have heard more than one person claiming there 300tdi has over 400 000kms on the clock.
We have two 200tdi's (very similar motor to the 300td) both have over 300 000 on them one has closer to 390 000 and is still running fine even though the previous owner had neglected services a fair bit.

CHEERS TIM.

TimRover wrote:

uninformed wrote:

TimRover wrote:if looked after they will do 400 000+.

difine looked after!

Serg

oil and filter changes every 5000kms (using good products), general maintnance and checks often.
I spose bigger tyres and more boost and fuel will effect the engine life abit.
I should have mensioned above alot of luck is needed with these motor's lol
This isn't coming from personal experiance but i have heard more than one person claiming there 300tdi has over 400 000kms on the clock.
We have two 200tdi's (very similar motor to the 300td) both have over 300 000 on them one has closer to 390 000 and is still running fine even though the previous owner had neglected services a fair bit.

CHEERS TIM.

200tdi is similar but enough differences to effect long term reliability...

i dont run bigger tyres, and had it serviced every 10000km as per LR schedule, by a LR specialist(not dealer)

after mine died at 230k i did some digging and found out some stuff re the tdi's that along with what they are SUPOSED to be able to do as far as work life etc.....

funny how the some people come out and say look after it properly and when asked to define it becomes clear that to maintain a working life you have to go above and beyond LR service recomendations on every level....

if you were told the truth from a realistic point of view from the outset, it might change your mind.....

btw when mine was in getting engine replaced, there were 2 other blown 300tdis, one due to big hole in casting in bottom end, the other over heated and cooked the engine very badly......but i guess he should have pulled the rad every 70k and had it rodded......

imo they are ok if you never carry a load and just want to cruise around...but if using it as a work vehicle, like its marketed as, then they are under powered and destined to fail....

Serg

uninformed wrote:btw when mine was in getting engine replaced, there were 2 other blown 300tdis, one due to big hole in casting in bottom end, the other over heated and cooked the engine very badly......but i guess he should have pulled the rad every 70k and had it rodded......

I'm not sure how "overheated" is the engines fault.

KiwiBacon wrote:

uninformed wrote:btw when mine was in getting engine replaced, there were 2 other blown 300tdis, one due to big hole in casting in bottom end, the other over heated and cooked the engine very badly......but i guess he should have pulled the rad every 70k and had it rodded......

I'm not sure how "overheated" is the engines fault.

i 100% agree, but the inadequete cooling system that LR designed has to go some of the way

Serg

KiwiBacon wrote:

uninformed wrote:btw when mine was in getting engine replaced, there were 2 other blown 300tdis, one due to big hole in casting in bottom end, the other over heated and cooked the engine very badly......but i guess he should have pulled the rad every 70k and had it rodded......

I'm not sure how "overheated" is the engines fault.

Not engines fault, but some decisions by Land Rover are poor.

For their performance they need good lubrication and cooling systems. They don't have an abundance of thermal mass like a 4BD1.

Because the water pump is mounted so high, a water leak will see them overheat in very short time, often before it is detected.

As Serg said, radiator issues are prone to bite you.

The radiator is small to allow the inter-cooler to fit beside it. So to get adequate cooling, the radiator is dual pass, cross flow. Sediment drops out in the horizontal tubes and because of the dual pass design (halved number of tubes), a few blocked tubes cuts down a large proportion of the coolant flow.

The plastic header tanks are notorious for splitting. Head gaskets are notorious, .....

What's he doing with the old deisel? I'll take it off his hands, I could do with some shed therapy

My 300tdi has 438,000KM on the clock original owner and has seen plenty of abuse, was serviced every 10k till 190 then every 5000 to 8000 by previous owner. And I do the same.

Has been running of 33inch muddies for 1 full year and has just spend the last year running 35's.

Timmy

Update.

Long story short
My mate ended up having his motor rebuilt at a diesel specialist in Western Sydney. Cost him around the $7g mark. Pistons ,rings, etc etc not too sure what else but it would want to be a fair bit
Did about 3000kms and it shit itself, took it back to be told the bore linings were of a poor quality grabbed the rings and so he has lost the new pistons etc etc and is back the same starting point and they are saying bad luck, not their fault.
This is pretty much all I know .

What do you recon?

I feel his pain, I went through a similar thing with my TD5 in my 130.
Its now got a 4.6 V8 with auto, lots of $$ later !!!!!

Jeff

Can the engine be older than the car?
I thought the engine have to be same old or newer because the emission laws.

Chris

PacMan wrote:Can the engine be older than the car?
I thought the engine have to be same old or newer because the emission laws.

Chris

no has to be same year or newer i thought.
how can you get your engine rebuilt and have it shit its self under 5000k,s
the mechanic should have given some sort of warranty if it was a full rebuild

blackmav wrote:Update.

Long story short
My mate ended up having his motor rebuilt at a diesel specialist in Western Sydney. Cost him around the $7g mark. Pistons ,rings, etc etc not too sure what else but it would want to be a fair bit
Did about 3000kms and it shit itself, took it back to be told the bore linings were of a poor quality grabbed the rings and so he has lost the new pistons etc etc and is back the same starting point and they are saying bad luck, not their fault.
This is pretty much all I know .

What do you recon?

I reckon your rebuilder was a hack. An expensive hack too.