Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Am Considering lokka or similar for my 100 series.

I had Air locker in last rig, but they are expensive.
My question is about going down hills with the auto locker installed.

With Air locker, it stays locked when you lift a wheel going downhill, helping to keep you from careening down the hill. Will an auto locker do the same? or will it unlock because it thinks you're turning a corner??

Stays locked. holds car fine going down hills through wasaways/ledges/wombat hole etc.

Until you get to a rut or haipin and you need to Turn
Air locker allows you to release, turn and reapply.

Bazzle

That when you tap the brakes and it releases and allows you to turn quite easily.

Just like an Airlocker, if its heavily loaded up it wont release. so take a bit of the pressure off and it will release and let you turn.

Release , Turn, Reaply.

exaclty, each time you tap the brakes the lokka releases. you turn and it automaticly reapplies preventing you from spearing off the side of the mountain.


Dingo Hill, Trig Track, etc.. all done quite happily lokkad front and back.

Find some nastier Swichbacks anywhere and I'll be amazed!! just look at trig on google earth!!

leehamescort wrote:That when you tap the brakes and it releases and allows you to turn quite easily.

Just like an Airlocker, if its heavily loaded up it wont release. so take a bit of the pressure off and it will release and let you turn.

Release , Turn, Reaply.

exaclty, each time you tap the brakes the lokka releases. you turn and it automaticly reapplies preventing you from spearing off the side of the mountain.


Dingo Hill, Trig Track, etc.. all done quite happily lokkad front and back.

Find some nastier Swichbacks anywhere and I'll be amazed!! just look at trig on google earth!!

Not quite correct.

An Auto locker is locked all the time unless differential action is requiered.
While going in a straight line the auto locker is engauged.
It is only while turning and the outside wheel needs to rotate at a different rate than the inside wheel the couplers inside the diff and the drivers on the axle disengauge and allow the outside wheel to turn quicker (Just like a standard diff).
Once the two axles rotate at the same speed the locker re engauges.
Tapping brakes or not makes no difference to locked or unlocked.
While under power on loose surface the locker will stay engauged making turning much stiffer through the steering wheel and the truck will understeer.
But de accellerating before cornering allows the locker to unlock and turn easly.
They are a good cheaper option than airlockers and work very well without extra hassles for the Air system ( Air line , electrics, swithes)
they take a small amount of adjusting too.

I have had Lockrights in 3 Gqs and 2 Toyotas, and i found them very good.

Grant.

I Agree, I have had three vehicles as well with auto's and my present GQ has front locker.
No problem going downhills or in and out of ruts etc.
I have gone up and down dingo, zeka spur etc in all condition including mud and snow and never had a problem at all.
I have also had an airlocker, the auto is different but just as good once you learn how it behaves.
In over 6 years of driving with an auto in the front I have only ever wanted (not needed) to turn in off probably three times, All on slippery as hell cross slopes. the trick is going really slow in these situations.

For the money you cant beat an auto lokka.

ps. only take advise from people that have actually driven with an auto lokka as the airlocker lovers will bag them without ever DRIVING with them.

chpd80 wrote:I Agree, I have had three vehicles as well with auto's and my present GQ has front locker.
No problem going downhills or in and out of ruts etc.
I have gone up and down dingo, zeka spur etc in all condition including mud and snow and never had a problem at all.
I have also had an airlocker, the auto is different but just as good once you learn how it behaves.
In over 6 years of driving with an auto in the front I have only ever wanted (not needed) to turn in off probably three times, All on slippery as hell cross slopes. the trick is going really slow in these situations.

For the money you cant beat an auto lokka.

ps. only take advise from people that have actually driven with an auto lokka as the airlocker lovers will bag them without ever DRIVING with them.

Yep, copy that!!
Go the mighty Lokka

Thanks to all the replies.. I would love an air locker...well two actually, but unfortunately they don't get given away very often It sounds like an auto locker is they way to go.. I'm not to worried about turning issues, so it seems a cost effective way of getting me up hills.. and down again safely..

Now to con the wife

Now for the hijack sorry.

Which auto lockers are the best for front diffs?

hando wrote: Which auto lockers are the best for front diffs?

Hard to say really, but Lokka, with self installation they give you a 5 yr warranty, thats confidence.

I've heard of men putting a detroit rear lokka front and vise versa, personal choice, really they all do the same job

hando wrote:Now for the hijack sorry.

Which auto lockers are the best for front diffs?

No probs hando, I am actually thinking that i will lock the rear with a lokka, and wait for the cash to get air locker for the front. That way I will have traction and definately no steering probs, then when the air lock goes in front I dont need to think about the rear, and just turn on and off the front when its required.

crunk81us wrote: That way I will have traction and definately no steering probs

Twin transfers and a BIG V8 No Steerin probs there

chpd80 wrote:ps. only take advise from people that have actually driven with an auto lokka as the airlocker lovers will bag them without ever DRIVING with them.

oh I can quite assure you bazzle has probably done more klms with auto and air than 95% of people here

GUEEY wrote:It is only while turning and the outside wheel needs to rotate at a different rate than the inside wheel the couplers inside the diff and the drivers on the axle disengauge and allow the outside wheel to turn quicker (Just like a standard diff).
Once the two axles rotate at the same speed the locker re engauges.
Tapping brakes or not makes no difference to locked or unlocked.
While under power on loose surface the locker will stay engauged making turning much stiffer through the steering wheel and the truck will understeer.
But de accellerating before cornering allows the locker to unlock and turn easly.

Yes, detroit lockers unlock the outside wheel when you turn under power, as long as the tyres have enough traction. If the inside tyre slips and gets up to the same speed as the outside one, the centre will lock and push in a straight line...

When you're engine braking, the effect is reversed. The wheels are driving the diff centre. It's actually the slower turning inside wheel that unlocks.

This is also why a detroit will double clunk if you change throttle between driving and engine braking (or vise versa) while turning. It's swapping drive from one side to the other.

I've had a detroit in a ford 9" in RWD vehicles (behind an auto 350 chev) since about 1996. The HG Holden ute shell died, so the mechanicals went into a Volvo. You need to learn how to drive them, as they are quite different to drive than an open centre (inc air locker) and clutch LSD.

Before Opposite Lock in Newcastle shut down, they had a little model of a detroit on the counter. I'd always freewheel it an leave the dog teeth on one side up on the teeth, which confused people. I wish I could get one of those models.

Athol wrote:

GUEEY wrote:It is only while turning and the outside wheel needs to rotate at a different rate than the inside wheel the couplers inside the diff and the drivers on the axle disengauge and allow the outside wheel to turn quicker (Just like a standard diff).
Once the two axles rotate at the same speed the locker re engauges.
Tapping brakes or not makes no difference to locked or unlocked.
While under power on loose surface the locker will stay engauged making turning much stiffer through the steering wheel and the truck will understeer.
But de accellerating before cornering allows the locker to unlock and turn easly.

Yes, detroit lockers unlock the outside wheel when you turn under power, as long as the tyres have enough traction. If the inside tyre slips and gets up to the same speed as the outside one, the centre will lock and push in a straight line...

When you're engine braking, the effect is reversed. The wheels are driving the diff centre. It's actually the slower turning inside wheel that unlocks.

This is also why a detroit will double clunk if you change throttle between driving and engine braking (or vise versa) while turning. It's swapping drive from one side to the other.

I've had a detroit in a ford 9" in RWD vehicles (behind an auto 350 chev) since about 1996. The HG Holden ute shell died, so the mechanicals went into a Volvo. You need to learn how to drive them, as they are quite different to drive than an open centre (inc air locker) and clutch LSD.

Before Opposite Lock in Newcastle shut down, they had a little model of a detroit on the counter. I'd always freewheel it an leave the dog teeth on one side up on the teeth, which confused people. I wish I could get one of those models.

I belive that was called the Detroit"EZ Locker"

Slightly old thread but....

I've got a Detroit in the back of my Rover. Overall I'm happy with it but it has a couple of drawbacks:

On a steep, loose downhill, the rear end sometimes wants to come around - touching the throttle will sort this out but its unnerving when it happens...

The other issue with an auto locker is slippery off-camber side slopes - the rear will walk sideways down the slope - with a manual locker you'd turn it off and wouldnt have the same issue.

With regard to the OP, this got me thinking. If an auto locker requires one wheel to be travelling faster to disengage - will it unlock on steep downhill with one wheel in the air under engine braking only??

The wheel on the ground should be wanting to travel faster ( gravity + vehicle mass ) than the wheel in the air ( driven by drivetrain revs only )

Or is it simply that the " preload of the locker device " ( not the diff preload ) is enough to overcome this and maintain locked status ?

M+S

u can always unlocked a hub for 3 wheel drive (and unlock the long side cv)

It wont unlock with one wheel in the air going downhill, I know I have done it.
The locker requires friction by one axle turning faster or slower than the other to seperate the gears, when one wheel is in the air it hasn't got any drive to be able to turn faster or slower than the other wheel, it will speed up or slow down the same as the wheel on the ground.
Both wheels need to have contact and enough friction with the ground to overcome the springs inside the locker for it to unlock.

When the tolerances inside the locker are set correctly it doesnt take make friction to lock the diff up.

Hope that makes sense.

Love the Lokka's , I've run air lockers before and had no end of drama's in the end I went and put Lokka's in and I love'em...... I'd never leave home without them

GUEEY wrote:It is only while turning and the outside wheel needs to rotate at a different rate than the inside wheel the couplers inside the diff and the drivers on the axle disengauge and allow the outside wheel to turn quicker (Just like a standard diff).

technically a standard diff allows the inside wheel to turn slower...

auto lockers (when unlocked) send power to the slower turning wheel (inner wheel in a corner), the free wheel can only spin faster than the driven wheel, not slower.

open diffs send power to the wheel with least resistance, ie the faster spinning wheel (outer wheel in a corner) and free wheel will always spin slower

Mike

Mick_n_Sal wrote:With regard to the OP, this got me thinking. If an auto locker requires one wheel to be travelling faster to disengage - will it unlock on steep downhill with one wheel in the air under engine braking only??

The wheel on the ground should be wanting to travel faster ( gravity + vehicle mass ) than the wheel in the air ( driven by drivetrain revs only )

I'd suggest that you re-read my earlier post in this thread.

chpd80 wrote:
ps. only take advise from people that have actually driven with an auto lokka as the airlocker lovers will bag them without ever DRIVING with them.

I've had auto lockers in 4by's when I was younger, and now I have air lockers and yes I do love them.

Will never go back to a auto locker. Would rather go without and save the extra dollars than put in a auto again.

As for driving down hil with the auto's, When I had the they would occasional give a big lurch forward it didn't happen often, but when it did your arse would grab the seat as it was normally in the worst spot for it to happen. but under most conds. I found them to be good in straight line situations.

It's when you need to turn that's the problem, really shows when you need to move just that little bit over quickly, or your trying to get out of the rut on the steep down hill (or uphill) bit that this problem really shows up.

It's when you need to turn that's the problem, really shows when you need to move just that little bit over quickly, or your trying to get out of the rut on the steep down hill (or uphill) bit that this problem really shows up.

This scenario is not a problem at all in the installs we have done as well severe switch backs either going up or down hill !
I would suggest your auto locker was not set up 100%.
If the pins or springs have been put in the wrong way the locker will bind as well you must have the correct tolerances.

anybody used one in snow?
eg coming down a steep descent into a hairpin turn would any problems come up.....probable death if the car doesnt stop or turn

thanks for all the replies.

They work great in the Snow too, I've had no drama's