Outer Limits 4x4 Board

just when everything is going peachy, something goes wrong. here is my story....

drove cruiser down to hobart yesterday, (2 hour drive), and longest one ive done since getting it. spent the trip in 4th and 5th gears. dont know if this has anything to do with...

get into hobart and cant downshift to second :bad-words: .stuffed around a bit and found that could convince car to go into 1st (read: this is quite hard to shift to) from 3rd, then with clutch still engaged easily change from 1st to 2nd. so driving around is 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th, back down to 3rd, then to 1st then up to 2nd. make sense

car still driveable, not easy tho. when changing gears not grinding, but sometimes get a clunk. spoke to local arb mob and then driveline shop, they reckon worn grove on shaft from ring (synchro i think) and will need a complete dismantle and repair job. looking at 2 & 1/2 days, $1200 up to worse case $2000 . obviously these prices subject to change until gearbox apart.

so, does this sound right guys? do i get this done or .... and whats the deal with mcnamara main shafts, do they stop this from happening again?



cheers
Lance

and the mcnamara upgrade



http://www.mcnamaradiffs.com.au/driveshaft1.html

1200 up to worse case $2000

bugger

Did you replace the oil lately it is a fact ( Talking from experance ) the if you put standard gear oil in the box ie: 80/90 it can "lock" out on the down change and is like a crash box on the up shift

double check the specs but from memory you need 75/85 makes it feel like it has just been rebuilt

phark, i hope so. mentioned changing oil with arb guy (and who should have done this couple of months ago), he didnt reckon it could help. but, couldnt hurt either


i checked my ellery's manual, it says to use SAE 75W - 90
also have manual on cd, its a toyota manual that i got from prev owner. it reckons to use SAE 90

i'll be doing this tomorrow, and ideas which weight oil i should get then?




and russell, hoping this works, so thankyou thankyou thankyou


lance

Some later toy boxes suffered from Baulking (assuming not worn out)
The lighter 75/80 (oil called Gearbox light from some brands) helps stop the baulking.

Worth the cost of oil?

Also prob best to post Toy posts in Toy section??
More owners there.

Bazzle

How did the oil change go?


If that didnt work, check the clutch. If the seals are buggered in the slave or master you might be only getting partial pressure/application. Might explain why you're getting some gears on downshift. (matched engine/transmission revs on upshift allows easy change)


Al

heaps better now. about 80% of what it used to be

ok, spent about 2 plus hours replacing oil in gearbox, transfer case and rear diff. took that long because of having to use little oil pump to get oil into filler points. after posting in thread about oil for detroit, thought i would chuck in some oil additive too. not sure if this was good thing but its in there now!

gearbox: morey's heavy duty oil stabiliser. 1 litre. then fill up with valvoline duragear 75w-85
transfer: castrol epx 80w-90
rear diff (detroit): moreys stabiliser 600ml. then fill up with penzoil gearplus 85w-140

shit loads easier to change gears, 1st is still little hard to get but not as bad as before. and yes, i can now downshift to 2nd. not easy as what was before troubles started, but easier then getting to 1st mid troubles

so, i was thinking of driving couple of days in hope it gets better, the look into clutch master and slave cylinders. sixty, how do i check the seals? or get new slave cylinder, some type of rebuilt kit for master/second hand/newie???

Also prob best to post Toy posts in Toy section??
More owners there.

Bazzle

um, stupid? tired and not thinking? nah, don't really know why i posted here and not in toyota section




and btw, if you are wondering why so many types of oil, well that is what happens when you go shopping and 3.30pm on sat and most shops close 4pm. oh, and castrol was left over that didnt use on last car, didnt see need to buy another brand

hey lance sounds like your on top of the problem mate... have you also tried double clutching? this is really effective with old gear boxes with farked syncros (like mine)

Bluey, to check the seals pull it apart and see if they have a sharp edge on the outside of them (where they slide in the bore) not a rounded or blunt edge. What condition is the clutch fluid in? Dark & sh!tty?

If the seals are buggered you're better off just buying a new slave or master cylinder unless you have access to a hone etc.

Sixty wrote:Bluey, to check the seals pull it apart and see if they have a sharp edge on the outside of them (where they slide in the bore) not a rounded or blunt edge. What condition is the clutch fluid in? Dark & sh!tty?

If the seals are buggered you're better off just buying a new slave or master cylinder unless you have access to a hone etc.

after checking clutch fluid in macca's carpark couple of days ago , i know it is dark and shitty. looks like i will need to drain clutch fluid as well, will check prices on slave and masters next couple of days, any idea on prices?

is master cylinder normally on firewall? connected to fluid reservoir?



thanks by the way on the replies, thinking you guys have saved me a fortune

yeah master will be on firewall.

i got a new master and slave cylinder for my corona. the master was 30 bucks, the slave was 70. but that was trade price.

Sounds more like a clutch problem than the gearbox. How many k's? Also Toyotas suffer from wearing out the little nylon bush under the shifter, about a $4 part. Pop out the stick, there's a special tool for this, the cap comes out like a like globe, push and twist (anti-clockwise I think, been a while ), a good pair of multi grips comes in handy.

I was not happy with the ARB dealer in Hobart after they re-assambled my locker with the case lock washers in the wrong place, under the screw heads instead of tapped over them.

Replace the cylinders - usually not much more than a kit, and they shouldn't leak. Any corrosion in the cylinders will chop out new seals, back where you started

done around 204 thou kays. looking in both my manuals, cant find this nylon bush in either one. do i just remove gear stick and its top of case cover, or the tip of gear stick maybe? oh yeah, and it is counterclockwise to remove, good memory

looked thru paperwork from prev owner, the master cylinder has been replaced in last 3.5 years, so i should only need to drain and new fluid, check out slave cylinder and pos put newie in



each time tell the minister [of war and finance] about next step to fix gearbox, gets all shitty, rolls eyes blah blah. shit, gotta be better than spending $2k on rebuild right??!!!!

Roktruk wrote:Sounds more like a clutch problem than the gearbox. How many k's? Also Toyotas suffer from wearing out the little nylon bush under the shifter, about a $4 part. Pop out the stick, there's a special tool for this, the cap comes out like a like globe, push and twist (anti-clockwise I think, been a while ), a good pair of multi grips comes in handy.

you don't really need any tools - remove the shifter boot(s), you will see a steel ring around the bottom if the shifter. put the shofter in neutral then push the ring down with both thumbs, then twist it counterclockwise, about 1/8 turn, let it go and it will pop up, and bingo the shifter slides out. inspect (replace) the shifter seat (nylon ring about the diameter of a 20c piece) and the shift bush on the end of the stick (abt the sizeof the end segment of your little finger).

but I also agree it sounds like it could be a clutch issue - and don't waste time with rebuild kits, just buy new master and slave cylinders and replace them both at the same time - if you only replace one the other will go very soon afterwards. they are cheap and fairly easy to replace.

I was not happy with the ARB dealer in Hobart after they re-assambled my locker with the case lock washers in the wrong place, under the screw heads instead of tapped over them.

I hope you cracked it at them, there's no excuse for that.

Bluey, make sure that you flush all the old clutch fluid BEFORE you attach the new slave. The old crud can be abrasive as hell and chew out a new seals really quick. Depending on your M/cyl reservoir setup, pull the res off and clean it as well. Use Brakleen, or similar.


Al

Ps you didnt mention which cruiser you had.

A mate of mine had same problem in his 75 cruiser after he had the g/box rebuilt. Sent it back , it was stripped down, checked, rebuilt. After about 100km same problem. Took it back, mechanic pulled it apart again! Found nuthin, put it back together. Problem came back in 2 days.
Finally found out mechanic was using "friction modified" oil. Apparently, the tojo sincro's dont like this flash oil. They just slip on the gear they are supposed to be slowing down.

Change oil twice with "non friction modified" oil to flush out the f/m oil. Drove like a new one!

Bluey wrote:

Also prob best to post Toy posts in Toy section??
More owners there.

Bazzle

um, stupid? tired and not thinking? nah, don't really know why i posted here and not in toyota section

see, knew i'd forget something else .

i have '84 bj73, with standard 3b, 5 speed gearbox which think makes it a h55f, and hydraulic, or is it vacumn?, activated transfer (switch on dash to engage 4wd, then lever for high or low)

only checked price on clutch cylinders one place so far, $150 new or around $60 second hand. this is for both, and think would new anyway. tried double shifting today, and some success . seemed to work better if i timed everything so shifting when revs still high(ish) (not sure, tacho doesnt normally work ). is this what i'm meant to be doing? oh yeah, still difficult to get into second, but sometimes when shift at low revs takes heaps more effort and by that time engine is now at idle