Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Is running nos in a winch challenge truck allowed?
Vic winch, engel ser, ect


CCDA states:

4.1.15 FUEL
Fuel used shall be limited to that available from retail fuel outlets.

Nos is available at retail outlets so i'd suggest it can be used, but will marshalls interprit this rule as they please???

Paul

I like the way you think.

Cheers

Braudy

OL GQ UTE wrote:Is running nos in a winch challenge truck allowed?
Vic winch, engel ser, ect


CCDA states:

4.1.15 FUEL
Fuel used shall be limited to that available from retail fuel outlets.

Nos is available at retail outlets so i'd suggest it can be used, but will marshalls interprit this rule as they please???

Paul

maybe retail outets, but retail "fuel" outlets ?

cant say I've seen a NOS pump at any local servo.. so I'd be guessing no.

You can buy it from performance shops all over the place, some also sell race fuels so this would then make them "retail FUEL outlets".
CCDA rule doesnt state BP or shell retailers,
and since Nos isnt a fuel, its an oxidiser allowing more fuel to be burnt CCDA rule: 4.1.15 FUEL, doesnt apply anyway

Does anyone run it? If not I bet it's not allowed, I'm sure others have thought of it.

Maybe it's a safety thing, afterall that's why we can't run it on road, isn't it?

-Nemesis- wrote:Does anyone run it? If not I bet it's not allowed, I'm sure others have thought of it.

Maybe it's a safety thing, afterall that's why we can't run it on road, isn't it?

Can some one explain why it is not safe?

STIKA wrote:

-Nemesis- wrote:Does anyone run it? If not I bet it's not allowed, I'm sure others have thought of it.

Maybe it's a safety thing, afterall that's why we can't run it on road, isn't it?

Can some one explain why it is not safe?

x2

-Nemesis- wrote:
Does anyone run it? If not I bet it's not allowed, I'm sure others have thought of it.

Maybe it's a safety thing, afterall that's why we can't run it on road, isn't it?

Nos is perfectly safe, it doesnt burn!
Im not sure why nos isnt legal on road probably because of the power increase it gives, or the change in emissions it produces, it doesnt matter anyway people run 37's on the road they cant exactly be called "safe" on 80% of the cars running them

NOS is illegal on the road because of the HP gain it gives you and it can only used when the foot is flat on the loud pedal .
If only we had 200kph freeways

HG wrote

NOS is illegal on the road because of the HP gain it gives you and it can only used when the foot is flat on the loud pedal .

Nos can be used at any engine rpm, constant-flow nitrous systems usually give a massive boost in everyday driving conditions. A huge low/mid-range boost is essential if a decent top-end gain is to be achieved. Depending on the size of the nitrous kit, a low-down torque increase well in excess of 50 percent is quite common.

I thought nos cant be used at idel
and it is allowed on a road car just cant be hooked up when the coppers pull you up

HG wrote:NOS is illegal on the road because of the HP gain it gives you and it can only used when the foot is flat on the loud pedal .

Yea, ask cheezy

we use to run it on our 4 cyl dato sunny good for going sideways through the local shops driveway

the original question was: Is running nos in a winch challenge truck allowed?
Vic winch, engel ser, ect.

im not asking who knows what about it or who has used it. simple really, have you used it in comp (with marshalls knowing)?

Well maybe you should make a call to the event organisers.

Not allowed on road for several reasons I can think of

no gas bottles in confined areas, no burn vent in bottle, make a car fire worse, unpredictable power increase to those that aren't aware, and if it leaks it will put you to stupor / sleep.

to give you the answer to your question it is NO
please feel free to give any of the CCDA rep a ring about it we will be more then happy to help you out
Steve
CCDA marshall trainer

thanks for the reply's guys, didnt want to start a shit fight with anyone.
just thought someone might have used it

Doesn't the team DGR Patrol have nitrous on their TB42 turbo??

ccda events = no, cliffhanger was ok last year, this year there was some "heated discussion" apparently but not sure on the outcome..

STIKA wrote:

-Nemesis- wrote:Does anyone run it? If not I bet it's not allowed, I'm sure others have thought of it.

Maybe it's a safety thing, afterall that's why we can't run it on road, isn't it?

Can some one explain why it is not safe?

generally its not the idea of guys running it, but the way the system is integrated, for its designed use.

I could pretty much guarantee comp organisors would let it run if it was fitted with the appropriate failsafes. BUT backyard joe would crack up because it would be too expensive to do properly.
Done to satisfactory standards you would need, roll-over mercury switching operating a cat4 forcibly guided contact relay, which operates and monitor both the solenoids and a supplementary bottle supply solenoid. This would also have to be run in conjunction with hose burst valves and they bottle supply solenoid would have to be position monitored, WITH a mechanical failsafe added. this all would have to be in a burst proof enclosure with appropriate venting. This would all have to be done to some decent SAE standards.

SO basically add $2k to the price of the setup, to ensure safety, AND then have someone with qualifications to inspect it!.

(OK so it sounds really 'techy' and a lot of crap, but that is the longwinded explaination of your basic LPG setup in your car )

chunks wrote:Doesn't the team DGR Patrol have nitrous on their TB42 turbo??

yep, 100hp of gaseous goodness!

1MadEngineer wrote:I could pretty much guarantee comp organisors would let it run if it was fitted with the appropriate failsafes. BUT backyard joe would crack up because it would be too expensive to do properly.
Done to satisfactory standards you would need, roll-over mercury switching operating a cat4 forcibly guided contact relay, which operates and monitor both the solenoids and a supplementary bottle supply solenoid. This would also have to be run in conjunction with hose burst valves and they bottle supply solenoid would have to be position monitored, WITH a mechanical failsafe added. this all would have to be in a burst proof enclosure with appropriate venting. This would all have to be done to some decent SAE standards.

SO basically add $2k to the price of the setup, to ensure safety, AND then have someone with qualifications to inspect it!.

(OK so it sounds really 'techy' and a lot of crap, but that is the longwinded explaination of your basic LPG setup in your car )

It's not a LPG system... it's a NOS system.

Some items could be bought from a welding shop, and probably have higher safty margins than what a motor shop could supply, after all you don't want to see the aftermath of an exploded actalene bottle, if there was anything left for 100+ meters around the bottle.

-------


Though I couldn't see why you'd want to put a NOS system onto a comp truck as the power would break parts or just spin the wheels on the spot.

Maybe on the endro comps I could see some point as your haulling through a road and the speed might offer some advantage.

The other problem is the size of the bottle and then the NOS shot size how long would you expect or want a bottle to last for, then you'd need a couple bottles to tied you over as I'd hazard to say that you wouldn't be able to run off to fill up the bottle when ever needed in a comp.

If you want to get technical NOS isnt a fuel.

generally speaking it can be very unsafe in a vehicle, As with every other type of pressurised cylinders unless designed with failsafes like vehicle lpg cylinders.

Not the best pic but if my memory serves me right at least one NSW comp truck has used it in the past



look closely on the drives side a nice little blue bottle

No idea on the details just remember seeing it round the tracks I believe the owner was Jason from Total Care 4x4 ??

zagan wrote: It's not a LPG system... it's a NOS system.

Is it just me or does it sound like everyone has watched the fast and the furious too many times. "NOS" stands for Nitrous Oxide Systems, so it like saying ATM machine. Call it nitrous, n20, gas or giggle anything but NOS.

Nitrous properly set up and using some fail safe methods is a very effective and safe way of boosting an engines hp and obviously the right "shot" chosen to suit your engine.
Some useful information: http://www.aussiev8.com.au/general-tech ... orque.html

sloshy wrote:

zagan wrote: It's not a LPG system... it's a NOS system.

Is it just me or does it sound like everyone has watched the fast and the furious too many times. "NOS" stands for Nitrous Oxide Systems, so it like saying ATM machine. Call it nitrous, n20, gas or giggle anything but NOS.

Nitrous properly set up and using some fail safe methods is a very effective and safe way of boosting an engines hp and obviously the right "shot" chosen to suit your engine.
Some useful information: http://www.aussiev8.com.au/general-tech ... orque.html

But that's what you pay a couple grand for the system not the gas.

You'd be walking into a shop and saying yeah... just pop some nitrous on the motor thanks.

That page doesn't talk about the different NOS kits you can have

Dry or wet
In-direct or direct
petrol/diesel
manual control or auto control


Also doesn't say that you need to upgrade the internal parts otherwise you'll be poping a piston out the motor.

I havn't been in a car with nos but from what I've told it's like doing 60kph then 200kph in half a second.

Which is why I offered the question of whether it'd be worth while in a winch comp etc.

NOS also cools the intake temp as well, the other good thing about nitrous.

I heard last year at cliffhanger there was a couple of teams running it, then they were told to turn off the system because 1 team almost fell uncontiouse in the cab of the car because it was leaking........ thats the rumor I heard anyhow.

It should be made compulsory just for a laugh

zagan wrote: Also doesn't say that you need to upgrade the internal parts otherwise you'll be poping a piston out the motor.

You don't need too if you don't go over board.
I ran direct port nitrous at a 100hp shot on my 186 in my eh ute for years with no problems, had stock crank, rods and cast pistons.

One of my mates runs 150hp shot on a 265 hemi with standard crank and rods with no problems, and another mate 400 chev full standard internals with 150 hp shot no problems.
I'm just about to put my nitrous kit on my 336cuin holden, 150hp shot can't wait

Some more info
http://www.holley.com/categories.asp?division=NOS