Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok here goes. i was playing with the front shckle mounts on satdy and am wondering where i should put it ??

my flat spring length and shackle length r 1295mm + 85mm.

i think that wen my front spring r dead flat that the shackle should b dead flat also, there fore my question is should i put the shackle mount on the chassis 1210mm from the fixed mount in a straight line ??
the pix give more detail..

Why do you want the shackle to sit dead flat and also does the spring sit dead flat at rest.
SAM

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Why do you want the shackle to sit dead flat and also does the spring sit dead flat at rest.
SAM

wen they r in the truck and its loaded they will sit with a slight arch

i dont want the shackle sitting flat at rest the 2nd pic is just showing wot it will look like wen flexed up coz i will bump stop it just past negative arch

im just trying 2 work out the right measurement from eye 2 eye on the chassis then ill set the springs up 2 sit at the right ride height and that after, i just wanna get the mounts the correct distance apart

Your pics won't work for me having trouble still with the broadband so I am trying to visualise. I think everyone would have a different view on this but I would probably run it at 50mm back at ride height you want around the 45 degree angle on your shackle any less of an angle the spring becomes stiffer and less travel.
SAM

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Your pics won't work for me having trouble still with the broadband so I am trying to visualise. I think everyone would have a different view on this but I would probably run it at 50mm back at ride height you want around the 45 degree angle on your shackle any less of an angle the spring becomes stiffer and less travel.
SAM

run wot at 50mm back from wot at ride height ?? wots ya email ill send u the pix

I woul;d run the centre of the chassis eye of the shackle 50mm back from the full length of the spring when flat.
Email doesn't work.
SAM

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:I woul;d run the centre of the chassis eye of the shackle 50mm back from the full length of the spring when flat.
Email doesn't work.
SAM

so if my flat spring length is 1295(eye2eye) i should mount the shackle end opn the chassis 1245 fron the front fixed mount ??

wot bout the length of the shackle where does that fit in ??

YES
Doing a SAS tomorrow will work it out properly on a vehicle.
SAM

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:YES
Doing a SAS tomorrow will work it out properly on a vehicle.
SAM

wot bout the 85mm in the length of the shackle ???

Can't post pics.
But roughly from the spring eye go back on a 45 dgree angle with a length of 85 mm and as long as the chassis is flat it shoulld be about 50mm. I will measure it up on a hilux tomorrow and work it out properly.
SAM

why did u want the shackle dead flat when the spring is dead flat?
so it will give u the most droop possible?
would it hit on your frame? cos that would suck if it did

if you run your chassis mounts 1210 apart then yes your shackle would be dead flat when the spring is dead flat

if you ran your mounts at 1252.5 ur shackle would be at 45degree when the spring is dead flat which i dont think is enuff angle

i would run it at 1232/1235 your shackle would be at around 22.5 degrees when the spring is flat (wich would be pretty close to the shackle angle i have on the rear of mine) and u shouldnt have to worry about the shackle hitting the frame and it would be on a nice angle at ride height


but what the fark would i know

redzook wrote:why did u want the shackle dead flat when the spring is dead flat?
so it will give u the most droop possible?
would it hit on your frame? cos that would suck if it did
COZ THEN WEN THE SPRING IS FLAT THE SHACKLE WILL BE FLAT AND THERE WILL B NO STRESSS ON ANYTHING AND YEAH THE MORE ANGLE I HAVE A REST THE MORE DROOP I WILL HAVE COZ I AM RUNNIN A VERY SHORT SHACKLE 2 MAINTAIN GROUND CLEARENCE

if you run your chassis mounts 1210 apart then yes your shackle would be dead flat when the spring is dead flat
YES I KNOW THIS

if you ran your mounts at 1252.5 ur shackle would be at 45degree when the spring is dead flat which i dont think is enuff angle
CORRECT

i would run it at 1232/1235 your shackle would be at around 22.5 degrees when the spring is flat (wich would be pretty close to the shackle angle i have on the rear of mine) and u shouldnt have to worry about the shackle hitting the frame and it would be on a nice angle at ride height
THE SPRING WILL NOT SIT DEAD FLAT AT RIDE HEIGHT, THEY WILL HAVE SOME ARCH BUT WILL B BUMPSTOPPED A LITTLE PAST NEGATIVE ARCH 2 HELP MAINTAIN SPRING LIFE, SO IF WEN THEN SPRING IS DEAD FLAT AND THE SHACKLE IS DEAD FLAT(not agaisnt the frame coz the mount is under it therefore sits away from chassis and will allow enuf room 4 a small bumpstop so that wen the spring goes flat it will rest on this preventin noise) THERE WILL B NO TENSION ON THE SPRING AS IT INVERTS PAST FLAT INTO NEG ARCH AND BACK AGAIN.

but what the fark would i know

so does that make any more sence ?? i think i confusing myself ?? or am i going about it all rong ??

should i try runnin a slightly longer shackle and more than 45 degrees at ride height ?? and i slightly flater arch at ride height ??

hypolux wrote:

redzook wrote:why did u want the shackle dead flat when the spring is dead flat?
so it will give u the most droop possible?
would it hit on your frame? cos that would suck if it did
COZ THEN WEN THE SPRING IS FLAT THE SHACKLE WILL BE FLAT AND THERE WILL B NO STRESSS ON ANYTHING AND YEAH THE MORE ANGLE I HAVE A REST THE MORE DROOP I WILL HAVE COZ I AM RUNNIN A VERY SHORT SHACKLE 2 MAINTAIN GROUND CLEARENCE

if you run your chassis mounts 1210 apart then yes your shackle would be dead flat when the spring is dead flat
YES I KNOW THIS

if you ran your mounts at 1252.5 ur shackle would be at 45degree when the spring is dead flat which i dont think is enuff angle
CORRECT

i would run it at 1232/1235 your shackle would be at around 22.5 degrees when the spring is flat (wich would be pretty close to the shackle angle i have on the rear of mine) and u shouldnt have to worry about the shackle hitting the frame and it would be on a nice angle at ride height
THE SPRING WILL NOT SIT DEAD FLAT AT RIDE HEIGHT, THEY WILL HAVE SOME ARCH BUT WILL B BUMPSTOPPED A LITTLE PAST NEGATIVE ARCH 2 HELP MAINTAIN SPRING LIFE, SO IF WEN THEN SPRING IS DEAD FLAT AND THE SHACKLE IS DEAD FLAT(not agaisnt the frame coz the mount is under it therefore sits away from chassis and will allow enuf room 4 a small bumpstop so that wen the spring goes flat it will rest on this preventin noise) THERE WILL B NO TENSION ON THE SPRING AS IT INVERTS PAST FLAT INTO NEG ARCH AND BACK AGAIN.

but what the fark would i know

so does that make any more sence ?? i think i confusing myself ?? or am i going about it all rong ??

should i try runnin a slightly longer shackle and more than 45 degrees at ride height ?? and i slightly flater arch at ride height ??

what is your question ?

ya seem to have figured out that u want the shackle flat when the spring is flat so mount it at 1210?

I played around with shackle angles on my zook when I was trying out different spring combos and found that to much shackle angle, even 45deg made the springs very soft and they would lose their height very quickly, changing to a more vertical angle I guess about 30deg has worked a lot better and doesn't seem to affect travel much at all

redzook wrote:what is your question ?

ya seem to have figured out that u want the shackle flat when the spring is flat so mount it at 1210?

well i just want some opinions, am i thinkin the right way or not ??

zooki wrote:I played around with shackle angles on my zook when I was trying out different spring combos and found that to much shackle angle, even 45deg made the springs very soft and they would lose their height very quickly, changing to a more vertical angle I guess about 30deg has worked a lot better and doesn't seem to affect travel much at all

ok cool, so wen u say lose height quickly, how mucha nd how fast we talking ??? wood they bend backwards or just lose an inch or so and stay there ??

My rear springs are approx 1500mm long when flat, the shackel is 165mm long and the 2 frame mounts are 1350mm apart in a straight line (not following the curve in the frame).

When my lux is comp ready (as in has spares and spare tyre etc on tray) the rear springs sit all but flat and the shackels are at approx 225 to 220 degrees (8 o clock). When the spring compressors the shackels only move back a poofteenth then they come forward again as the springs are going into negitive camber. When the springs are drooping the shackels move forward to approx 175 to 170 deg (5 o clock)

yeah thanx Guts, sounds like how the back of mine works ATM

Refering to your 2nd pic Ben, I tried this with my current rear springs and it didn`t work, with just me jumping on the tray the shackel would go back and sit against the frame and wouldn`t come back unless I lifted the rear of the lux and took some wieght off the springs. If you were to mount the frame end of the shackel at 1210mm you`d need the shackels at (guessing) 120mm.

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Can't post pics.
But roughly from the spring eye go back on a 45 dgree angle with a length of 85 mm and as long as the chassis is flat it shoulld be about 50mmwill measure it up on a hilux tomorrow and work it out properly.
SAM

85mm eye to eye shackle should work out at near 60mm

I think

So with your 85mm shackel I`d mount it at around 1255mm (But I`d be doing what you are doing now and get other people`s opnion 1st)

hypolux wrote:

zooki wrote:I played around with shackle angles on my zook when I was trying out different spring combos and found that to much shackle angle, even 45deg made the springs very soft and they would lose their height very quickly, changing to a more vertical angle I guess about 30deg has worked a lot better and doesn't seem to affect travel much at all

ok cool, so wen u say lose height quickly, how mucha nd how fast we talking ??? wood they bend backwards or just lose an inch or so and stay there ??

With a 45 deg angle new springs would lose about 1 inch in 3 months with the angle more vertical the old reset springs I put in have gonr that long and not dropped any

You could allways fine tune it later with a longer or shorter shackel.

my front springs are flat and the shackle is at 45deg with 85mm shackle and I`m getting full 14" of down travel with out opening the clamps and the springs are shorter than yours,There`ve sagged about half an inch at first and but have`nt sagged any more not bad for 22 year old leafs.

Guts wrote:So with your 85mm shackel I`d mount it at around 1255mm (But I`d be doing what you are doing now and get other people`s opnion 1st)

yeah was thinking something like that after read the thread again..

4sum yeah good points..

weill i think i gunna go with guts and put it at around 1255mm unless some1 else has anything different ??

hypolux wrote:weill i think i gunna go with guts and put it at around 1255mm unless some1 else has anything different ??

your shackle angle wont go past 45degrees and it would almost be straight up and down at ride height

4sum4 wrote:

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Can't post pics.
But roughly from the spring eye go back on a 45 dgree angle with a length of 85 mm and as long as the chassis is flat it shoulld be about 50mmwill measure it up on a hilux tomorrow and work it out properly.
SAM

85mm eye to eye shackle should work out at near 60mm

I think

yep 60.1mm
pythagoras yourself senseless on an 85 x85 right angled triangle and you'll get 120.208... half that figure is the offset hypo is after.

i don't know anything about leaf springs, but here is some more accurate maths to work with.

Wendle wrote:

4sum4 wrote:

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Can't post pics.
But roughly from the spring eye go back on a 45 dgree angle with a length of 85 mm and as long as the chassis is flat it shoulld be about 50mmwill measure it up on a hilux tomorrow and work it out properly.
SAM

85mm eye to eye shackle should work out at near 60mm

I think

yep 60.1mm
pythagoras yourself senseless on an 85 x85 right angled triangle and you'll get 120.208... half that figure is the offset hypo is after.

i don't know anything about leaf springs, but here is some more accurate maths to work with.

nice so u think somewhere between 1215 and 1220 ??