Outer Limits 4x4 Board

On a recent club trip we put our little cars on a weigh bridge to see how much the weighed. I had always thought that my car would be really light (i.e. 800 to 900kgs), but as it turns out - the car was 1200kgs*.

Anyone else weighed their cars - I think they aren't quite as light as you'd expect.

* - things to note regarding this reading:

1. I was in the car (65kg)
2. Full tank of Fuel (55litres)
3. Doors and Windscreen attached
4. All my tools in the back along with 2 spare axels etc.
5. Esky and spare clothes too...

I think bigsteve had the lightest car there - how much was is BigSteve?

Other cars that were there were a G-Wagon - 2500kgs and an 80 Series - 3000kgs.

So basically the car was setup for a trip, not for a boxing match weigh in.

This also has me thinking about how i could reduce the weight of the vehicle... So far the obvious places are:
1. Wheels - change to alloy or something lighter.
2. Removing the doors and windscreen of course.
3. Run less fuel in the tank / Carry less tools - this is not ideal though.
4. Perhaps the cage could be built using lighter material.
5. Remove all the mud from under the body
6. Replace the engine with an Alloy block (K6A)

greg wrote:On a recent club trip we put our little cars on a weigh bridge to see how much the weighed. I had always thought that my car would be really light (i.e. 800 to 900kgs), but as it turns out - the car was 1200kgs*.

Anyone else weighed their cars - I think they aren't quite as light as you'd expect.

* - things to note regarding this reading:

1. I was in the car (65kg)
2. Full tank of Fuel (55litres)
3. Doors and Windscreen attached
4. All my tools in the back along with 2 spare axels etc.
5. Esky and spare clothes too...

I think bigsteve had the lightest car there - how much was is BigSteve?

Other cars that were there were a G-Wagon - 2500kgs and an 80 Series - 3000kgs.

So basically the car was setup for a trip, not for a boxing match weigh in.

This also has me thinking about how i could reduce the weight of the vehicle... So far the obvious places are:
1. Wheels - change to alloy or something lighter.
2. Removing the doors and windscreen of course.
3. Run less fuel in the tank / Carry less tools - this is not ideal though.
4. Perhaps the cage could be built using lighter material.
5. Remove all the mud from under the body
6. Replace the engine with an Alloy block (K6A)

Mine came in at 1080 with no doors, a full tank of juice, all tools and Little Steve in the drivers seat.

greg wrote:1. I was in the car (65kg)

Eat some food or something!!

Or are you a midget?

Have you still got sound proofing on the floor of your rig?
Drill holes in the body where it is not needed. Your can even drill through your brake disc!

bigsteve wrote:

greg wrote:On a recent club trip we put our little cars on a weigh bridge to see how much the weighed. I had always thought that my car would be really light (i.e. 800 to 900kgs), but as it turns out - the car was 1200kgs*.

Anyone else weighed their cars - I think they aren't quite as light as you'd expect.

* - things to note regarding this reading:

1. I was in the car (65kg)
2. Full tank of Fuel (55litres)
3. Doors and Windscreen attached
4. All my tools in the back along with 2 spare axels etc.
5. Esky and spare clothes too...

I think bigsteve had the lightest car there - how much was is BigSteve?

Other cars that were there were a G-Wagon - 2500kgs and an 80 Series - 3000kgs.

So basically the car was setup for a trip, not for a boxing match weigh in.

This also has me thinking about how i could reduce the weight of the vehicle... So far the obvious places are:
1. Wheels - change to alloy or something lighter.
2. Removing the doors and windscreen of course.
3. Run less fuel in the tank / Carry less tools - this is not ideal though.
4. Perhaps the cage could be built using lighter material.
5. Remove all the mud from under the body
6. Replace the engine with an Alloy block (K6A)

Mine came in at 1080 with no doors, a full tank of juice, all tools and Little Steve in the drivers seat.

PS

None of the following (Which Greg has but I am yet to fit)
6pt Cage
Beadlocks
Winch
Larger Fuel Tank

DeWsE wrote:

greg wrote:1. I was in the car (65kg)

Eat some food or something!!

Or are you a midget?

Have you still got sound proofing on the floor of your rig?
Drill holes in the body where it is not needed. Your can even drill through your brake disc!

Ooops - i think i'm 75... my bad.

hahah - i'm just under 6 foot i think.

Yeah - it does still have some sound proofing in it... i guess that could come out.

i forgot the winch too - which is 34kg's of pure grunt but i have some winch rope to put on that - so that'll lose a few more kgs too

bigsteve wrote:6pt Cage

:george costanza voice on:

18 metres of toob baby

:george costanza voice off:

alloy wheels and internal beadlocks could save you allot of weight, my ris and tyres alone would have been 170Kg (thats just for 4 tyres and rims) and they were not beadlocked .. (44Kg per wheel)
The Cap motor probarbly is no lighter than the g13 due to it's iron block


Chro-mo for the cage ??


get the axle gun drilled and cross drilled rotors .. that would have to save 500grams

RCI plastic seats, get rid of any glass (which we now know is possible, no windscreens yay), single battery, no doors or tailgate, remove any sound deadening, get rid of all mats, do like the Mercedes team did in the 30s when their cars were a smidge over the weight - strip the paint off and run bare metal, have only enough barwork needed for protection/safety, if using a winch run with synthetic rope, aluminium hawse, alloy rims with speedway beadlocks (tech screw the bead onto the rim), take a crap

All of these might help in keeping the weight down

love_mud wrote:get the axle gun drilled and cross drilled rotors .. that would have to save 500grams

Well I said drill the rotors not by crossed drilled. I've seen hillclimb cars with 20mm diameter holes cut in the disc.
And even if it is 500grams thats still losing weight.

Maybe fibreglass panels?

DeWsE wrote:
Maybe fibreglass panels?

Our front clips would only way 2 kilo's in total anyway

Note: using weight wisely is probably a better approach.......

The power to weight issues are one of the zookies best attributes (when compared to other 4wd's). Obviously there are area's where you can skimp, and similarly, areas where you shouldn't, so using your ideas constructively can lead to notable differences.

But, in the bigger picture, there are some 'less' understood principles.

For example.............

1. We know that appropriate gearing will make or break a vehicles '4wd' ability.

2. Vehicle dynamics & stability.......which leads me to.....

3. Centre of Gravity

The centre of gravity is a simple concept (although complex in it's relationship affects) which affects everything about a vehicle, and is a generally treated with little consideration by the 'regular' auto user.

From towing, to acceleration, to braking, even simple things like packing stuff in places can make a notable difference.

In an effort to stop rambling, a simple example.

Big Steve

More to the point some simple difference between his old, and his 'new' rigs.

whilst not really much of a weight difference (i think you would be supprised as the the simple realities...) the extra mass of the h/top, and more to the point, the fact that the 'extra' mass is up high, affected the position of the coG significantly.

Similary, I think it would be quite notable if you 'added' weight down low (ie big heavy tyres, Hilux or similar diffs etc) to Steves current setup.

Sure there is a 'unsprung weight' issue, but considering that most 4wd (rocks and climbing, as opposed to touring) is low speed, this kinda negates this issue.

Remember the thread about 'height vs width' etc think about it for a bit and you might see what I mean...

One last thing to consider before I turn the computer off for the day, bare with me if you can, imagine Redzook and his progression to the Zook diffs etc etc.
His gearing is great, and probably reduces the issues of 'extra weight', his stability (cross-slope) is greatly improved by the extra width of the diffs, as well as the extra weight down low........
Imagine, how good he would 'have it', if he could reduce a bit of that mass up high........(eg, make it a soft top as opposed to the h/top, loose all the heavy glass, and 'trim' some of that plumbers rack......... )

That would make for a tough and stable zook.

Appoligies for the wramble.

Drewfus wrote:That would make for a tough and stable zook.

Check out LJ Extreem - this is pretty much what it is - very wide, with most weight very low = very stable

Drewfus wrote:Note: using weight wisely is probably a better approach.......

The power to weight issues are one of the zookies best attributes (when compared to other 4wd's). Obviously there are area's where you can skimp, and similarly, areas where you shouldn't, so using your ideas constructively can lead to notable differences.

But, in the bigger picture, there are some 'less' understood principles.

For example.............

1. We know that appropriate gearing will make or break a vehicles '4wd' ability.

2. Vehicle dynamics & stability.......which leads me to.....

3. Centre of Gravity

The centre of gravity is a simple concept (although complex in it's relationship affects) which affects everything about a vehicle, and is a generally treated with little consideration by the 'regular' auto user.

From towing, to acceleration, to braking, even simple things like packing stuff in places can make a notable difference.

In an effort to stop rambling, a simple example.

Big Steve

More to the point some simple difference between his old, and his 'new' rigs.

whilst not really much of a weight difference (i think you would be supprised as the the simple realities...) the extra mass of the h/top, and more to the point, the fact that the 'extra' mass is up high, affected the position of the coG significantly.

Similary, I think it would be quite notable if you 'added' weight down low (ie big heavy tyres, Hilux or similar diffs etc) to Steves current setup.

Sure there is a 'unsprung weight' issue, but considering that most 4wd (rocks and climbing, as opposed to touring) is low speed, this kinda negates this issue.

Remember the thread about 'height vs width' etc think about it for a bit and you might see what I mean...

One last thing to consider before I turn the computer off for the day, bare with me if you can, imagine Redzook and his progression to the Zook diffs etc etc.
His gearing is great, and probably reduces the issues of 'extra weight', his stability (cross-slope) is greatly improved by the extra width of the diffs, as well as the extra weight down low........
Imagine, how good he would 'have it', if he could reduce a bit of that mass up high........(eg, make it a soft top as opposed to the h/top, loose all the heavy glass, and 'trim' some of that plumbers rack......... )

That would make for a tough and stable zook.

Appoligies for the wramble.

Wise words mate.

My primary goal for my new zook was low COG, but also the fact that a soft top is very "rollable" in comparison to a hard top.

I will roll mine, I fully intend to push it beyond its limits, I just want to go alot further before it flops (Like my old rig.

greg wrote:

Drewfus wrote:That would make for a tough and stable zook.

Check out LJ Extreem - this is pretty much what it is - very wide, with most weight very low = very stable

The majority of its weight is now in the diffs which is scary-cool

Big Steve - i think you has 12 months before you'll get to drive that line again... Judging by Patrolmans footage of Mt Diss last week - i'm quite certain that the crockpit would be full of water again... oh well - that's time enough to get that cage in place i reckon

why is every1 pickin on hardtops?

surely there cant be more than 30/40kg in the extra bit of roof

and id say my exo is under 40kg so thats what 8okg not much! but yes it would make a difference but i dont reckon much

redzook wrote:why is every1 pickin on hardtops?

surely there cant be more than 30/40kg in the extra bit of roof

and id say my exo is under 40kg so thats what 8okg not much! but yes it would make a difference but i dont reckon much

They must be a bit heavier... when we did the body swap on my car it straight away sat another inch and a bit taller front and rear...

greg wrote:Big Steve - i think you has 12 months before you'll get to drive that line again... Judging by Patrolmans footage of Mt Diss last week - i'm quite certain that the crockpit would be full of water again... oh well - that's time enough to get that cage in place i reckon

Bummer, I'm saving my maiden roll for the Jacksons Break Crazy lines trip

bigsteve wrote:

greg wrote:Big Steve - i think you has 12 months before you'll get to drive that line again... Judging by Patrolmans footage of Mt Diss last week - i'm quite certain that the crockpit would be full of water again... oh well - that's time enough to get that cage in place i reckon

Bummer, I'm saving my maiden roll for the Jacksons Break Crazy lines trip

I think you should run that one... I think i already have a big enough rollovers : trips i run ratio

greg wrote:

bigsteve wrote:

greg wrote:Big Steve - i think you has 12 months before you'll get to drive that line again... Judging by Patrolmans footage of Mt Diss last week - i'm quite certain that the crockpit would be full of water again... oh well - that's time enough to get that cage in place i reckon

Bummer, I'm saving my maiden roll for the Jacksons Break Crazy lines trip

I think you should run that one... I think i already have a big enough rollovers : trips i run ratio

I'll be running it, just need to pick a date.

bigsteve wrote:I'll be running it, just need to pick a date.

Pre track closures would be ideall - then you can finish coming up though vic range just before it shuts

mine wasnt much heavier than Gergs, and mines a LWB ...and I weigh 110Kg, and had 60 litres of fuel, spare water, oils etc. I ferget the actual weight??? chrustover

crazy lines, jacksons break, im there

vic range is cool too

stock coily sierra kerb weight is 930-970 kgs for the soft top and 915-1000kg for the hard top , i think it varies depending on optional extras. its less difference then i had thought till i checked the specs

I've got a h/top body, as well as a soft top sitting around (both damaged, but for the experiment will do...). Also have access to some 10T digital scales......will try and measure the weight differences on the weekend if I get the chance.

you can also be too light. When my Zuk was back in its SATs and a tray days I found that it didn't have enough weight over the back axle to get enough traction. By adding a couple of spare tyres over the axle it made a huge difference in climbing and general traction. That is why we built the tray as it is now, more weight over the axle

redzook wrote:why is every1 pickin on hardtops?

surely there cant be more than 30/40kg in the extra bit of roof

and id say my exo is under 40kg so thats what 8okg not much! but yes it would make a difference but i dont reckon much

you would be surrised how much heavier they are. Extra weight in the sheetmetal, glass is quite heavy so you have 3 extra windows there. Also having the weight up higher acts like a pendulum. Once you get the weight moving it is harder to stop its swing

bigsteve wrote:

bigsteve wrote:

greg wrote:On a recent club trip we put our little cars on a weigh bridge to see how much the weighed. I had always thought that my car would be really light (i.e. 800 to 900kgs), but as it turns out - the car was 1200kgs*.

Anyone else weighed their cars - I think they aren't quite as light as you'd expect.

* - things to note regarding this reading:

1. I was in the car (65kg)
2. Full tank of Fuel (55litres)
3. Doors and Windscreen attached
4. All my tools in the back along with 2 spare axels etc.
5. Esky and spare clothes too...

I think bigsteve had the lightest car there - how much was is BigSteve?

Other cars that were there were a G-Wagon - 2500kgs and an 80 Series - 3000kgs.

So basically the car was setup for a trip, not for a boxing match weigh in.

This also has me thinking about how i could reduce the weight of the vehicle... So far the obvious places are:
1. Wheels - change to alloy or something lighter.
2. Removing the doors and windscreen of course.
3. Run less fuel in the tank / Carry less tools - this is not ideal though.
4. Perhaps the cage could be built using lighter material.
5. Remove all the mud from under the body
6. Replace the engine with an Alloy block (K6A)

Mine came in at 1080 with no doors, a full tank of juice, all tools and Little Steve in the drivers seat.

PS

None of the following (Which Greg has but I am yet to fit)
6pt Cage
Beadlocks
Winch
Larger Fuel Tank

Just re-checked my notes, mine actually weighed in at 1020kg

grimbo wrote:you can also be too light. When my Zuk was back in its SATs and a tray days I found that it didn't have enough weight over the back axle to get enough traction. By adding a couple of spare tyres over the axle it made a huge difference in climbing and general traction. That is why we built the tray as it is now, more weight over the axle

Weight over the back axel eh? Maybe that's what these boys were thinking...

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