Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi there all,

I have been reading everything i can on patrol engine conversions on here for years. There is always alot of people talking about whatthey want to do - but not as many seem to report back, and particuarly long term.

here is my situation -

I have a gq, tb4.2 on gas. it had a slight head problem, which i promptly used seal up on If it were a head or gasket, it is easy, but my car has pretty low kms (185k - 94 model) and i think it may have sat at times, and as such i am worried about a corroded block. Unfortunately i wont know till i pull it apart, and once i do - i have to fix it (it runs fine now).

So i am cosidering my options. I have been interested in changing the motor, and have looked at plenty of different options. But keep coming back around to the 5L holden motor (even though i generally don't like holdens much )
I want to be able to run which ever motor i get on gas, but want dual fuel - which makes turbo set ups a bit difficult.
So that basically leaves me with V8's for an option. I want an injected motor, and also to leave it pretty much stock other than the exhaust and perhaps the inlet.
Ford motors - seem too uncommon
1uz - my dad has one in a cressy, nice, but not alot of bottom end.
vh45 - uncommon, and im worried about the same as the 1uz.

So basically that leaves me with a Gen 3, or a 5L.

I want more power than my tb42 ( i dont really want to spend money rebuilding the tb42, as i dont think it will make much more power easily on dual fuel).

I thought perhaps a 5L, they were known as having reasonable low down torque - alot of people said much better than the gen3 in the commodores - but i am concious that this may be more a gearing set up issue.
5L are also pretty unpopular, and there for cheap, and a couple guys in the fuel useage thread seem to be getting ok mileage.

I was planning on keeping my factory auto and mating the 5L to that.

So i would like to hear from people who have hese running - holtrol and simcoe spring to mind.

Are you happy with the power upgrade - i do a bit of towing, and daly driving. not too much 4x4ing, a bit of beach work.

Do you think the patrol auto is the go?

Is the 5L the right choice?

Cheers
Stew

how ya goin mate, ive got a gq patrol which started life as a 4.2 efi auto and is now a holden 355 stroker and turbo 700. i couldnt be happier with the conversion. i also have a vy ss and both cars have been on the dyno and i can tell you the 355 kills the gen3 up to about 3000 revs after thats the gen3 comes into its own. i went the holden conversion coz i too was worried about the low down power of the gen 3. the gen3 is a bit of a slug down low, but up top and mid range they are good, but for me personally in a heavy 4 wheel drive i wanted low down power hence the reason i went the holden

Mate has a 304 (EFI) GQ SWB, Uses plenty of fuel, and Being mated to the facotry 4.2P 5 speed, the gearing is all wrong, but it's still better than the 4.2p although they drank like a fish too anyway.

i had a gq manual 5.0l,loved it,3.9 diff gears and 35,s went well and preety good on fuel,doing it to a gu now,heaps cheaper conversion,want more power just stroke it

Hey Stew,
I'm pretty much running the same set up you are thinking of. Stock 5 litre, TB42 auto with impco gas system. It’s driven daily & tows my Jayco on camping trips.
The 5 litre is a reliable & proven aussie made motor, it has been made for decades, parts are cheap & plentiful. What I am after from my 4x4 is max torque with low revs. The 5 litre produces better low down torque than the gen 3 but when the gen 3 gets going matters quickly change, so you will get there quicker in a gen 3. It produces its max torque at 4400 rpm when the 5 litre produces it at 3600 rpm. More torque later or a bit less torque earlier? It all comes down to personal preference & there are compromises and tradeoffs to both scenarios.
The auto has been selected for its strength. It’s basically a truck box & has been behind the V8 for 11 years, still going strong. I have been told by those in the know that if I plan to tow, keep the Nissan box in it. Converter lockup is set to a switch which helps with the hills & low range engine braking. Would like to go manual one day as it feels like power & economy is lost through the auto.
Fuel consumption I am happy with as it costs me about the same to run as my wife’s Vitara. I am running 3.9 ratios on 31” tyres. After a gas dyno I am drinking 27 litres p/100 around town, 24 on the hwy & 30 towing on gas.
My mate is running an injected gas system in his 5 litre Trol. Compression has been pumped up to 10:1, it has been balanced, port & polished. It has great low down torque & drinks less than mine. That’s the way I would probably like to go but wouldn’t be terribly unhappy with a gen 3. Whatever option you choose, before too long you will end up wanting what the other one will give you. The solution would be a 355 stroker.

John

I have a Gq xtra cab with VT 5.0 man with Elko vapour LPG injection, your better off getting the earlier motors that have less sensors and don't have air flow meters, also remember the dizzie is right up the back which makes impossible to work on if needed.my fuel consumption I wish was better as this is my work /towing truck - on fuel around 320k's 95lt, on gas around 225 k's towing all day, I wish i'd put the TD42 in, as the pull much harder under tow. As for the conversion from MARKS adaptors be weary cause once he's got ya money he don't give a shit,wasn't happy jan, my motor is a stock 195 kw .
Do ya homework first

toy77 wrote:Hi there all,

I have been reading everything i can on patrol engine conversions on here for years. There is always alot of people talking about whatthey want to do - but not as many seem to report back, and particuarly long term.

here is my situation -

I have a gq, tb4.2 on gas. it had a slight head problem, which i promptly used seal up on If it were a head or gasket, it is easy, but my car has pretty low kms (185k - 94 model) and i think it may have sat at times, and as such i am worried about a corroded block. Unfortunately i wont know till i pull it apart, and once i do - i have to fix it (it runs fine now).

So i am cosidering my options. I have been interested in changing the motor, and have looked at plenty of different options. But keep coming back around to the 5L holden motor (even though i generally don't like holdens much )
I want to be able to run which ever motor i get on gas, but want dual fuel - which makes turbo set ups a bit difficult.
So that basically leaves me with V8's for an option. I want an injected motor, and also to leave it pretty much stock other than the exhaust and perhaps the inlet.
Ford motors - seem too uncommon
1uz - my dad has one in a cressy, nice, but not alot of bottom end.
vh45 - uncommon, and im worried about the same as the 1uz.

So basically that leaves me with a Gen 3, or a 5L.

I want more power than my tb42 ( i dont really want to spend money rebuilding the tb42, as i dont think it will make much more power easily on dual fuel).

I thought perhaps a 5L, they were known as having reasonable low down torque - alot of people said much better than the gen3 in the commodores - but i am concious that this may be more a gearing set up issue.
5L are also pretty unpopular, and there for cheap, and a couple guys in the fuel useage thread seem to be getting ok mileage.

I was planning on keeping my factory auto and mating the 5L to that.

So i would like to hear from people who have hese running - holtrol and simcoe spring to mind.

Are you happy with the power upgrade - i do a bit of towing, and daly driving. not too much 4x4ing, a bit of beach work.

Do you think the patrol auto is the go?

Is the 5L the right choice?

Cheers
Stew

Thanks for the replies guys..... Sorry i havent got back earlier - been down the snow with limited internet for a week.

John - so you have had yours running in your truck for 11 years? Your setup sound pretty much what i want from mine. I am pretty happy with my gas consumption and running costs at the moment for what the truck is, but would like a bit more power, and reliability. I dont want to spend money on this motor to have no more power and an engine that may still do another head (or whatever my problem is) if i can get a reliable replacement with a bit more grunt.
What conversion kit did yours use?

any more ideas - please put em in...

Cheers
Stew

my mates got a VS SS 5lt in a GQ shorty & is very dissapointed with it, heres a few more ideas to confuse more than what you probably are allready
mine; big block 454 chevy & my brothers ford 351 cleveland both in GQ's

454

351

Thanks for the reply,

What is he unhappy about with it in particular?

I like ford motors, but i want an injected motor, and the late model ford motors are simply not as common. that was why i wasn't looking at them.

How does the big block go on fuel in comparison to the others?

Cheers
Stew

I know the 304i Holden motor is an easier install, but don't discount the Gen series engines. If you change the cam and edit the tune in the Gen 3 you won't have the problem of all the power being produced in the top end. Its not a big job and you can get the cam done before the engine goes in. Then once you have the conversion completed, take it to a reputable dyno tuner. Don't get a pre set tune, get them to tune it on the dyno. Its well worth the money spent.

I have heard from a couple of people that the LS1 is easier to fit in a GQ than the 5Litre. And its a much better engine

Steve

killalux wrote:I have heard from a couple of people that the LS1 is easier to fit in a GQ than the 5Litre. And its a much better engine

Steve

is it its about the same to fit both mate i have don both motors in to a gq.

killalux wrote:I have heard from a couple of people that the LS1 is easier to fit in a GQ than the 5Litre. And its a much better engine

Steve

is it its about the same to fit both mate i have don both motors in to a gq.lets face it its a 4wd its not a race car.

toy77 wrote:Thanks for the reply,

What is he unhappy about with it in particular?

I like ford motors, but i want an injected motor, and the late model ford motors are simply not as common. that was why i wasn't looking at them.

How does the big block go on fuel in comparison to the others?

Cheers
Stew

hey stew,
hes just unhappy with the power of it always changing back for hills, overtaking ect; the chev & ford are much quicker so hes a little upset he gets about 5klms per ltr in a shorty!!!, mine gets 4kmls per ltr & the cleveland is the dearest returning around 3?? both in LWBs. mine will keep up with a new ve ss just to give an idea,

yeah i would stay away from the newer ford 5ltr windsor, unless you did alot of work to it, if you really want injection i would look at atleast gen 3 or the new 6ltr, i think anything under ( 350ci ) is just not worth the money of converting going by what ive seen..
jess

Thanks guys,

Jess, Thanks for that - are those comprisons on gas or fuel?

Cun7s, what did you think of the 2 different conversions? the major problems with each?

Thanks again guys
Stew

toy77 wrote:Thanks guys,

Jess, Thanks for that - are those comprisons on gas or fuel?

thats on gas, but on fuel the 5ltr is slightly cheaper again but not by to much,
no worries mate

those figures are reasonable i think.....

i get around 3.7-4km per litre on gas with my TB42.
so if i could maintain at least that economy i would be happy.

The head or block issue im guessing will cost me around 2-3grand - to get the same performance i have now.

So im looking for an improvement in performance and reliability for the minimum outlay.

Thanks again for that info.
Cheers
Stew

toy77 wrote:those figures are reasonable i think.....

i get around 3.7-4km per litre on gas with my TB42.
so if i could maintain at least that economy i would be happy.

The head or block issue im guessing will cost me around 2-3grand - to get the same performance i have now.

So im looking for an improvement in performance and reliability for the minimum outlay.

Thanks again for that info.
Cheers
Stew

yeah i know what you mean stew, the big block is actually abit cheaper to run than my old tb42!! 4.2ltr compared to 7.4ltr hmm go figure , & the front susspension sits higher now? atleast you will have a good heavy duty boat ancor when you take it out

Hey Stew,
I'm running the Marks conversion kit, didn't have much choice those days.
Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

Is the distributor on the nissan tb42 at the front

If so why will it be more of a problem than standard to keep dry:?:

Holtrol wrote: Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

I have a 351 cleveland in a GQ and there are no problems keeping the dizzy dry, also the TB42 has the dizzy at the front. So what are you on about?

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Holtrol wrote: Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

I have a 351 cleveland in a GQ and there are no problems keeping the dizzy dry, also the TB42 has the dizzy at the front. So what are you on about?

with the GQ tb42 and clevo, you will have cough's splutters and the like when you go through water and cover the dizzy in water ALOT quicker than a gq with a chev in it with the dizzy at the rear

the tb42 dizzy has o rings and a breather to stop water INTO the dizzy, a clevo has nothing.

JEs

jessie928 wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Holtrol wrote: Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

I have a 351 cleveland in a GQ and there are no problems keeping the dizzy dry, also the TB42 has the dizzy at the front. So what are you on about?

with the GQ tb42 and clevo, you will have cough's splutters and the like when you go through water and cover the dizzy in water ALOT quicker than a gq with a chev in it with the dizzy at the rear

the tb42 dizzy has o rings and a breather to stop water INTO the dizzy, a clevo has nothing.

JEs

Got any real world experience? I haven't had any problems with deep river crossings and I say the dizzy at the front of 351 makes no difference. You're just obviously anti-ford.

351ciofgrunt wrote: You're just obviously anti-ford.

well yeh fords are crap! go the chev. I got a small block with some goodies in it in my gq at the moment, havent driven it yet tho. But i have heard alot fo people dissapointed in the 5L as it just doesnt have enuf berries for a heavy GQ. if u stroked it out ot 355 then you'd be happy.

jessie928 wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Holtrol wrote: Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

I have a 351 cleveland in a GQ and there are no problems keeping the dizzy dry, also the TB42 has the dizzy at the front. So what are you on about?

with the GQ tb42 and clevo, you will have cough's splutters and the like when you go through water and cover the dizzy in water ALOT quicker than a gq with a chev in it with the dizzy at the rear

the tb42 dizzy has o rings and a breather to stop water INTO the dizzy, a clevo has nothing.

JEs

OR you could go with an AU falcon windsor that hos NO dizzy at all, then just mount the coil pack high on the firewall or even inside the cab.
the AU engine also makes more power and torque then most of the holden 5L engines.

and with the price of stroker kits for them being so cheap there is easy power and torque to be make.

[quote: well yeh fords are crap! go the chev. quote]

Nah you're crap!

I hope my comment matches your level of immaturity

351ciofgrunt wrote:

jessie928 wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Holtrol wrote: Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

I have a 351 cleveland in a GQ and there are no problems keeping the dizzy dry, also the TB42 has the dizzy at the front. So what are you on about?

with the GQ tb42 and clevo, you will have cough's splutters and the like when you go through water and cover the dizzy in water ALOT quicker than a gq with a chev in it with the dizzy at the rear

the tb42 dizzy has o rings and a breather to stop water INTO the dizzy, a clevo has nothing.

JEs

Got any real world experience? I haven't had any problems with deep river crossings and I say the dizzy at the front of 351 makes no difference. You're just obviously anti-ford.

real world? yeah i do actualy,

i am by no means ANTI ford
my first 40 series i converted to a 302 clevo, drove/thrashed it for 10 years. one of my current thrashabout fj40 shorty's has a 302 windsor in it, i have had this one for about 10 years also. I also have a few with chevs

IMHO best engine by far in a 4wd with a dizzy is the SBC it takes ALOT more water to wet the chev dizzy.

CLEVo's make good boat motors, cant overheat/boil a river now can you.....


Jes

brad-chevlux wrote:

jessie928 wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Holtrol wrote: Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

I have a 351 cleveland in a GQ and there are no problems keeping the dizzy dry, also the TB42 has the dizzy at the front. So what are you on about?

with the GQ tb42 and clevo, you will have cough's splutters and the like when you go through water and cover the dizzy in water ALOT quicker than a gq with a chev in it with the dizzy at the rear

the tb42 dizzy has o rings and a breather to stop water INTO the dizzy, a clevo has nothing.

JEs

OR you could go with an AU falcon windsor that hos NO dizzy at all, then just mount the coil pack high on the firewall or even inside the cab.
the AU engine also makes more power and torque then most of the holden 5L engines.

and with the price of stroker kits for them being so cheap there is easy power and torque to be make.

i absolutly H8 holden V8's. why would you sling a holden motor in anything, your so limited, when you chev it, its an quick/easy/cheap upgrade path from 265 to 572 and beyond...

Jes

351ciofgrunt wrote:

jessie928 wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:

Holtrol wrote: Wouldn't like having to keep the dizzy dry on that 351, another comprimise. There is no right or wrong to your question. Look at what all the options offer & pick the one that suits you best.

I have a 351 cleveland in a GQ and there are no problems keeping the dizzy dry, also the TB42 has the dizzy at the front. So what are you on about?

with the GQ tb42 and clevo, you will have cough's splutters and the like when you go through water and cover the dizzy in water ALOT quicker than a gq with a chev in it with the dizzy at the rear

the tb42 dizzy has o rings and a breather to stop water INTO the dizzy, a clevo has nothing.

JEs

Got any real world experience? I haven't had any problems with deep river crossings and I say the dizzy at the front of 351 makes no difference. You're just obviously anti-ford.

I was comparing it to the Chev or Holden motor, not the 4.2.
Although you don’t have any problems many do & a dizzy at the front will always get wet before one stashed at the back.
River crossings shouldn’t be too much of a problem because you travel slow. Go through a boggy hole half filled with water fast enough & you will get water up there.

351ciofgrunt wrote:[quote: well yeh fords are crap! go the chev. quote]

Nah you're crap!

I hope my comment matches your level of immaturity

lol woh cant take a lil joke mate, dont cry