Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey all, just finished installing my EGT gauge today, although not exactly as i was intending to!

Originally i was going to drill and tap the manifold (pre turbo), but once i removed the manifold heat shield i noticed one of the shield bolt holes was drilled right through, so i stuck the probe into the hole just to test the gauge. At this point, i had installed everything else, and i only had to fit the probe.

Incidentally, the probe is almost a size for size fit into the hole! and one of the probe installation options included in the install kit (autometer) is a hose clamp for clamping the probe into an un-tapped hole, along with the required fibreglass gasket.... So thats how i have fitted it for now!

My question is, is the way i have installed it ok for permanent use, or is it more of a temporary fitting option?

Is the location of the probe ok?


I would prefer a drilled and tapped hole, but im also scared of shavings making their way into the turbo! Is there a way to eliminate this problem? vacuum cleaner nozzle up close when drilling and tapping?

If i keep the hose clamped system, i will just cut out a small section of the heat-shield and re-fit.

And other input, or critisism welcome!!

Mike

As long as it doesn't leak and it registers correctly i cant see a problem.

Maby getting a better tbar clamp and drilling a hole in it like they have will make it last better.

Good luck with it

The only thing i could say it that i was always under the impression they are suppose to be installed in the dump pipe somewhere to measure a true reading...

I only say this as every EGT sensor i have seen/installed have been in the dump pipe not the manifold

"True" EGT readings are obtained in the exhaust port in the head.

So the closer to that point you get the closer to "true" your reading will be.

Some people will tell you that Pre and Post EGT temps can vary as much as 200deg.

mike_nofx wrote:Incidentally, the probe is almost a size for size fit into the hole!

*ALMOST* ? so its leaking? Is that white plummers tape you have sealing that up?

and one of the probe installation options included in the install kit (autometer) is a hose clamp for clamping the probe into an un-tapped hole,

is it just me or any anyone else think of anything apart from bluetack being a worse option than that?

Its actually pretty common practice bogged.

That white thing u see is a fiberglass gasket.

The probe is forced into the hole by the clamp and crushes down on the gasket (positive seal)

Shes all good

bogged wrote:

mike_nofx wrote:Incidentally, the probe is almost a size for size fit into the hole!

*ALMOST* ? so its leaking? Is that white plummers tape you have sealing that up?

and one of the probe installation options included in the install kit (autometer) is a hose clamp for clamping the probe into an un-tapped hole,

is it just me or any anyone else think of anything apart from bluetack being a worse option than that?

No leaks. By "almost size for size" i mean its absolutely perfect for installing the probe in this way.

The hose clamp method is not a dodgy idea i thought up, its in the autometer instructions. It doesnt rely on a thread to seal it up, it relies on a small fibreglass gasket.

See pic below. But where it shows 'collar' it actually has the fibreglass gasket instead. And the way i have it set up, its not sealing on round pipe like in the pic, its on a machined flat surface.

As for your install. Looks neat to me.

Having the probe before the turbo will give you slightly faster response to temp changes. Most of us install them in the dump pipe because its easier.
I installed mine with the hose clamp & fibre washer as in the pic. Works good. Its been on for 9 months now without leaking or needing adjusting.

those clamp setups are dodgy. it's less effort to do it right and drill and tap a hole - in the right place. sooner or later the band clamp will give up. This is how it should look. (can also see plugged hole to left for post-turbine probe).

[/img]

bogged wrote:is it just me or any anyone else think of anything apart from bluetack being a worse option than that?

its not often we see eye to eye, but in this you have my full confidence.

dumbdunce wrote:

bogged wrote:is it just me or any anyone else think of anything apart from bluetack being a worse option than that?

its not often we see eye to eye, but in this you have my full confidence.

agreed, remove it drill and tap, Dont bodge up something as important as a sensor that will tell you if your motor is going to go bang

Looks ugly, but it'll probably work fine.

Just keep an eye on it, check for leaks regularly at the start.

Autometer recommends it, BUT

THat's normally post turbo - low presure - under 5psi in a normal exhaust.
Pre-turbo may work that gasket a bit (or lot) harder - 20PSI+ maybe


Worst case - small leak - won't really matter.

Shavings won't bother the turbine side. Where do you think the carbon and rust flakes go?

Paul

There's a lot of stuff in your engine bay that relies on hose clamps.

For me the look of it would be enough of a motivator to go for a tapped hole instead though.

I'm with the other guys. The clamp might mork, but a proper weld in/threaded probe will be far more reliable (and looks better/neater).

As Skeg said, most people fit them to the dump pipe because it is far easier and safer.

Here's my banger (probe is on the top of the manifold):

coxy321 wrote:Here's my banger (probe is on the top of the manifold):

I especially like the invisible intercooler, very high tech

chimpboy wrote:

coxy321 wrote:Here's my banger (probe is on the top of the manifold):

I especially like the invisible intercooler, very high tech

It's just like solidworks, right click and you can make it show again.

chimpboy wrote:

coxy321 wrote:Here's my banger (probe is on the top of the manifold):

I especially like the invisible intercooler, very high tech

Probably shouldn't have posted THAT pic. Its a gen2 Laminova "Camoflage" model - supposed to be top secret.

mike_nofx wrote: I would prefer a drilled and tapped hole, but im also scared of shavings making their way into the turbo! Is there a way to eliminate this problem? vacuum cleaner nozzle up close when drilling and tapping?

Is your hole on the exit pipe or simply on the header?

For question: Your best to take the header off then do the work then clean up etc then put back on.

The vacum won't get the swarf inside the pipe, if your've started it up you'd have blown the swarf out anyway, at least it's going out the exhaust, the worst that could happen is the swarf melting then sticking to the turbine wheel may off blance it.

OK thanks for the advice!

I'm pretty convinced that i do want to drill and tap the hole. Although i will point out:
Looks is not an issue, it will be covered by a shield anyway. Also, i dont really see the 'hazard' with using hose clamps, if it where to snap, all that will happen is that i will lose the egt reading, and have a small hole in my manifold until i get home and plug it. I have the bonnet open a couple times a week (check fluid levels and other maintenance) im sure i would notice anything out of the ordinary.

Why i now will drill and tap the manifold is because i'd rather just fit it and forget it. Not having to worry about the clamp snapping, or the gasket leaking!

Not really wanting to remove the manifold to avoid shavings though!
So what could be my best options to avoid getting any in the manifold?
*Would having the engine running while i drill the hole have any benifit, or would it be worse?
*What about blowing compressed air into where i currently have the probe (so shavings are blown out of the hole i am drilling)

I dont want to shorten the life of the turbo, just to fit the probe in a different way!

Again, thanks for the advice and comments.

Mike

I drilled my manifold with it on the car, only the last little bit of the shavings go in to the manifold. and being cast iron, the shavings are almost like small grains, and they blew through the turbo as soon as the engine was started.

Ive read of people drilling and tapping the hole with hte engine idling so swarf is blown out as you drill

IMO, your safest bet would be to unbolt the turbo so there's a 2-3inch gap between flange and turbine flange, plug the turbine inlet with a rag, fire the engine to blow out swarf, then bolt turbo back on.

If you want to do it the quicker way (turbo left on), i'd drill the hole slowly (smaller swarf) with a cold motor, then start the engine and hopefully the shavings will blow past the turbine wheel. A cold turbo will stop shavings melting onto the wheel.

For the sake of an extra 20 minutes though - just unbolt the turbo.

My see 200c egt at idle, 350 on road and 700 at the top of a mountain range.

None of those temps will even get steel to glow, size irrelevent.

It won't melt or stick.

The only 2 things that could go wrong are
a) A piece "sticks" until fulll boost and hits the turbine at speed. Even then, it's a hard turbine (unliek the inlet) and likely wouldn't notice.

b) A peice gets behind the wheel and onto the seal. If you pull one apart you'll see why that's unlikely.

Designed to geal with carbon remember,

Paul

see here for "safe" procedure for drilling and tapping.



http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic178606.php

Thanks for the help guys.
I drilled and tapped the manifold, Top down directly above the turbo. Not sure if thats the best position, but thats where its staying!

I had to use an extension from the wrench to tap, because the tap wrench would have hit the head. I found that the extension bar from a 1/4" socket set fits over the tap and clamps into the wrench very well!

It seems to work very well, it reacts instantly to any changes in revs or load. If cruising along at a steady pace, the split second i accelerate the gauge already reacts, same goes for backing off the revs or load. Seems to be no delay.

At idle (when at operating temps, and after a drive) it will sit at 160c.
And today i went for a 1hr trip, with a few hills i tried to see how hot the temps would get and it wouldn't get over about 520c.

Here is the complete probe install, and a pic of the excess egt cable, and boost gauge hose coiled up and shielded.





Mike

Good work, Squire.