Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi All

I have a project racing buggy that I am looking at.

I need to know what the strongest Front Wheel Driven car you have seen or used etc.

Ideally a 1.3 L Front wheel drive, efi with power steer but beggars cant be picky.

I have been ready Mocks buggy build but that is build for Crawling, I am looking at building something for speed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Nick

sort out your gearing and you'll find out that you don't need strength in the manual. Your in the equivalent of low range all the time (even if you run 2.5:1 ford 9" diffs) so the gearbox doesn't see much load. how you are going to get enough speed out of it though is another problem.

It's not easy to swap non-matching transverse gearboxes to different motors. your gearbox choice will be dictated by the engine choice AFAIK. Probably the strongest FWD gearbox would be a PPG dog gear equipped EVO lancer gearbox, but I think you'll struggle to get under 1600cc with that block/gearbox combination.

next option might be the 6 speed ZF gearbox used in the last shape mini cooper S. Apparently a very high quality gearbox- ours did 120000km easily.

Just some ideas.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:sort out your gearing and you'll find out that you don't need strength in the manual. Your in the equivalent of low range all the time (even if you run 2.5:1 ford 9" diffs) so the gearbox doesn't see much load. how you are going to get enough speed out of it though is another problem.

Steve.

Steve, I would be thinking if he is after speed it might be used for a rear engine setup. Not as in mocks case, where it drives a pair of diffs.

What about Pajero IFS setup or IFS/IRS?? The diesels have 140kw/500NM.

Aside from that, Evo Lancer, WRX, 380/Magna....???

Theres a few rally built gearboxes for 1.3L sort of vehicles getting around.

Daihatsu Charades, Nissan Micras. Suzuki Swifts all come to mind as vehicles which have had gearboxes built up by the rally sorts and even the Cup challenges in Japan. And all have 800cc to 1.5L 4cyls.

I happen to know you can bolt a 1.6L (GA16DE) Nissan Pulsar gearbox straight onto a Nissan Micra 1.3L (CG13DE) engine as well. You'd need forced induction to kill that setup. Standard micra gearbox not so crash hot..I ruined the diff in mine.

turps wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:sort out your gearing and you'll find out that you don't need strength in the manual. Your in the equivalent of low range all the time (even if you run 2.5:1 ford 9" diffs) so the gearbox doesn't see much load. how you are going to get enough speed out of it though is another problem.

Steve.

Steve, I would be thinking if he is after speed it might be used for a rear engine setup. Not as in mocks case, where it drives a pair of diffs.

A bit OT but which would have better weight balance - front or rear engined buggy? I suppose it would depend on the type of terrain/event - rocks or racing

most likely mid-rear engine - as then the driver can be on the front wheels and steer very precisely, while their view is not obstructed by the engine.

as for strong FWD, how about corolla?

alien wrote:most likely mid-rear engine - as then the driver can be on the front wheels and steer very precisely, while their view is not obstructed by the engine.

as for strong FWD, how about corolla?

corolla gearbox is quite weak

MR2 apparently has a slightly better unit.

What about IFS from Mazda MPS/turbo diesel, Focus XR5, Skyline (R32-33). Definately strong units.

will it be 2wd or 4wd ?

How about something from an MR2 already rear engined ?

Daihatsu Charade or Applause, bit of variety with ratios, cheap and plentiful. I run a Detomaso charade rally car, found strenght to be good.

Cheers

love_mud wrote:will it be 2wd or 4wd ?

How about something from an MR2 already rear engined ?

a rav4 gear box will bolt up to a MR2 engine apparently. a Mate did it in a buggy

FORD Sierra?

Ford laser.

I had one for a while with the 1.5 efi 5 speed, drove it like it was stolen and it never died.
A mate had the 1.3? carby 4 speed and that thing survived more than mine did.

SR20det?

gen 3 3sgte AWD would be my first choice
gen 2 3sgte fwd layout rwd would be my second choice

MARKx4 wrote:SR20det?

GTiR Pulsar.

Ford Laser/Mazda TX5 Turbo (2L i think) is another one.

First of all thanks for all the replies.

I am looking at building a Off Road Race Buggy instead of a class 8 4x4.

I am thinking of using a front engine & gear box combo instead of a VW or Albins gear box set up which will cost a bomb.

The plan is 1.3 or 1.6 L front wheel drive engine that will cop a bit of abuse.

Find a buggy / vw / some beast lying around that I can use the suspension etc from as a starting point and going from there.

If it looks promising I will finish the GQ and flog that off as the buggy will so much lighter and easier to tow for when I do long trips.

Rockmonsta wrote:Daihatsu Charade or Applause, bit of variety with ratios, cheap and plentiful. I run a Detomaso charade rally car, found strenght to be good. Cheers

Where Can I find some more info on that ?

Again thanks for all the info.

Nick

mike_nofx wrote:FORD Sierra?

They are RWD or AWD in the case of the Cosworth .

I had a 2.0L turbo Lancer with just over 200kw using a 1.6L (F5M22) gearbox, 5 puck ceramic clutch and lightened flywheel. At 180kw It lasted 8 years, but only 6 months when the boost got turned up. The KM210 from the Hyundai sonata are stronger and have better gear ratios, LSD's are available from the states.

The Mitsu 1.6 engine is a detuned version of the 2.0L so alot of the parts can be interchanged and are easily sourced cheaply. There are very minor exterior details from the 1.6 4G61 compared to the 2.0L 4G63 Even the engine mounts are almost the same, So going the 2.0L would be a wiser choice.

Bit bigger than what your after, but mates buggy has a 2.6ltr and 5 speed out of a magna rear mounted. cops an absolute flogging on the beach in dunes and on the occasional bush track, and he hasn't killed it yet

I had a 2003 Toyotoa Corolla, 1.8L engine, 5 spd manual, was a great car, very reliable engine, cost nothing on servicing, only needs oil and water and the car has done 180,000kms before the factory clutch needed replacing.

See how you go but i would recommend these, toyota engines are great, corolla's from the early 80's are still going strong, the body's might be a bit rough but they still drive well.

Will be interested to see what you choose.

uted1 wrote:

That is the style I am going for.

gg_courier05 - 1.8 puts me up a class and if I want to race race the big boys I will get my arse handed to me.

Actually thing about it I will probably get flogged in the class I am aiming for as well.

I am looking at Clubman Buggy ( class 6 up to 1650cc ) or Pro lite ( class 1 and up to 3500cc ).

I will keep you all updated once I find a suitable frame.

Cheers Nick

i would avoid the GTI-R Pulsar / sr20 gearbox, they are weak as piss unless you put the dog kit for them.


Something your after is the gti suzuki swift 1.3 engine, then put the suzuki swift 1.6 gearbox onto it then the equivalent holden barina (same shape as a swift) diff center and you have basically a indestructible gearbox/ diff.

cheers mark.

I have watched a fair few buggies race and it still escapes me why they are rear mount. They jump very poorly, need a different driving style to drive (cannot steer) and will cost $ in cv's.

make a mini truggy - 4age with t50 or auto and hilux rear diff. cheap and different. can then run an arm front.

edit - a smaller version of this:

http://www.trophylite.com/

bru21 wrote:I have watched a fair few buggies race and it still escapes me why they are rear mount. They jump very poorly, need a different driving style to drive (cannot steer) and will cost $ in cv's.

make a mini truggy - 4age with t50 or auto and hilux rear diff. cheap and different. can then run an arm front.

edit - a smaller version of this:

http://www.trophylite.com/

Could that compete in the clubman or prolite class in that layout though? A truggy with brumby shell would be ultra bogan

Or go the proton jumbuck??

Edit* Just had a look, if you bodied the mini truggy to resemble a vehicle of some sort then it could go in extreme 2wd or 4wd class, otherwise if its simply a front engined buggy without body work it could compete in any of the buggy classes except clubman buggy which has quite a lot of build regs.

And to totally steal the thread a mini truggy class could be very cost effective, no need for expensive transmissions or cv's. Maybe my off-road racing dreams will one day become a reality!!

How about a GSXR 1000 motor?

mud4b wrote:i would avoid the GTI-R Pulsar / sr20 gearbox, they are weak as piss unless you put the dog kit for them.

x2

One of the few factory AWD east west manual boxes I've heard of that doesn't have a glass jaw reputation is the Galant VR4.

lump_a_charcoal wrote:How about a GSXR 1000 motor?

Gear box is to weak.