Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hello all,

I want to install a winch on my GQ and have some questions regarding the different options. I'm hoping that those of you who have a winch can awnser my questions and add your opinion regarding the advantages/disadvantages. I would like to spend my money correctly the first time.

The usage I will require out of it would be regular hobby driving where I would now drive harder more technical tracks knowing that I could get myself out safely with a winch. Speed would not be the main issue. System reliability would be my main priority.

1. Hydraulic option.
- Is there a way of speeding them up (maybe a seperate pump run off the transmission pto output)?
2. PTO option.
- Where are they readily available from?
3. Electric option.
- What sort of battery is required (cranking/deep cycle)?
- What is the reason for some competition trucks running 24v winchs?

Cheers Ian

MEX wrote:Hello all,

I want to install a winch on my GQ and have some questions regarding the different options. I'm hoping that those of you who have a winch can awnser my questions and add your opinion regarding the advantages/disadvantages. I would like to spend my money correctly the first time.

The usage I will require out of it would be regular hobby driving where I would now drive harder more technical tracks knowing that I could get myself out safely with a winch. Speed would not be the main issue. System reliability would be my main priority.

1. Hydraulic option.
- Is there a way of speeding them up (maybe a seperate pump run off the transmission pto output)?
2. PTO option.
- Where are they readily available from?
3. Electric option.
- What sort of battery is required (cranking/deep cycle)?
- What is the reason for some competition trucks running 24v winchs?

Cheers Ian

dont know about the first two but electric i can help a bit with. you dont use deep cycle as these are designed for long term low draw applications like fridges.

you just go a normal battery but it has to be big enough to suit your application. most require a 650 cca battery as minimum, but the individual winch will specify for you.

24 v creates far less heat in your cabling so you can do longer pulls or draw more power without melting stuff and effectvely use thinner cable. for this app you need seperate 24v alternator and 2 more batteries linked in series to make 24v.

yes you can run a pto (if your case has the option for it) and a pto can either be used as a mechanical or hydraulic winch. just need a pump running off the pto instead of a mechanical drive.

or you could also run a hydraulic pump off your motor.

but unless your serious about the hydraulic winch i would not be thinking about going this way. i recommend it, but it is costly, it all depends on how you go about it.

you could get a gear pump for under 500 bucks, i have seen the winch (drum and hydraulic motor) for around 900 i think from ebay, but i dont know about the quality or what rating they are. the ones i do know about are primarily recovery winches on tow trucks and come in at about 2200, but that can fit 50m of cable, but they are a fair bit bigger, and heavier, then you need a relief valve and a dcv(directional control valve), and probably an unloading valve,(as having a dcv with open center would mean that kids could come an unspool your winch which none of us would want.

i work in a hydraulic workshop, and have talked to the more experienced guys about it, you could have an absolutely bullet proof system, but it would be costing you around the 6 grand or so mark, i think higher(obviously my cost is different hence why i am most probably going down this path)

i also would not recomend using a power steering pump as your winch pump, but people have had sucess with it.

i would rather a beefyer system, that can pull hard all day every day, and for long periods of time. and that i could still steer properly while winching.

also, i know that some people say ah but you cant use a hydraulic winch if the engine isnt running, which is a no brainer, but i would rather be using a hydraulic winch if the cars bonnet was under water than an electric, and if the car cannot be run, i would be using my hand winch any way. as if your stuck and its going to take a while, and you cant run your car, the electric will fail eventually aswell. so i will always carry my turfer.

remnber though, this is only my opinion.

for cost you cant beat a warn high mount winch. hook it up to 2 high CCA batteries. on our production class winch car we use 2 AC Delco batteries , they are 900CCA each and the winch pulls strong.

If you speak to Hobzee at H4 he can supply a High mount winch with breathers fitted and a 6hp motor. this set up is very reliable and can be counted on when needed. They may cost a little more to begin with but spare parts are available for them and in 10 years time if you look after it will still be going strong and still worth good dollars on the second hand market.

Love to see what ppl say about hydraulic....

I've got 12v Warn Arb Set up and have been dissapointed with it....

For serious winching comps and hardcore recreational I think 24v is the go.. My set-up cuts off after about 10m and will only un spool. I have to wait for five minutes for it to go another 10m. Only running standard 60 series alternator - hoping that's the cause.

Before I go away again i'll get it checked out maybe 200amp alternator/solenoid upgrade and 6hp motor??? But if I had my time again i'd go 24v from the start....

SCANAS wrote:Love to see what ppl say about hydraulic....

I've got 12v Warn Arb Set up and have been dissapointed with it....

For serious winching comps and hardcore recreational I think 24v is the go.. My set-up cuts off after about 10m and will only un spool. I have to wait for five minutes for it to go another 10m. Only running standard 60 series alternator - hoping that's the cause.

Before I go away again i'll get it checked out maybe 200amp alternator/solenoid upgrade and 6hp motor??? But if I had my time again i'd go 24v from the start....

hows your battery? how quick does it pull 10m? im not familiar with the speed of a warn but 10m i would expect to take a while, most people rest their winches periodically so they dont over heat, is it the thermal cut out? or lack of power causing it to stop.

IMO a dual battery option or better alternator is worth considering if you expect to do alot of winching and are staying 12v as 99% would for non comp use.

the problem with 24 volt is running 3 batteries min (often 4 if you have your cranker, deep cycle, 2 in series) and having to find space to belt another alternator in there as well.

p.s i have a 24 volt alt if anyone wants one

Sorry for the thread hijack but thehanko i'd say it's thermal cause it still unspools but won't respool plus the winch motor gets really hot...
I have dual batteries one optima red top and a no name brand arb put in three years ago linked through arb solenoid via button on dash. I'll replace the second battery with another good battery get the system checked and go from there. How will more battery and alternator power stop it from cutting out tho?

SCANAS wrote:Sorry for the thread hijack but thehanko i'd say it's thermal cause it still unspools but won't respool plus the winch motor gets really hot...
I have dual batteries one optima red top and a no name brand arb put in three years ago linked through arb solenoid via button on dash. I'll replace the second battery with another good battery get the system checked and go from there. How will more battery and alternator power stop it from cutting out tho?

it wont. in short i was more meaning if your battery was crap then it would not pull well for long and put all the load on your alt.

couple of options run compressed air through your winch motor casing (both line in and out) to keep cool air running through.

and give it a break every minute or so. its the main restriction on electric winches. probably 90 sec then give it a rest.

so it's pretty normal for a winch to cut out every 10metres or so for hard stuff?

SCANAS wrote:so it's pretty normal for a winch to cut out every 10metres or so for hard stuff?

depends how steep and heavy the truck is i guess. my winch is slow as so 10m is a long time

the comp truck winches i have worked on are all modified warn high mounts with twin 12v 6hp motors that are supplied 24-26v.

this makes the 12v motors scream but wear out quickly.typically rapid brush wear or sometimes brush failure.

in the real world a 24 volt winch being supplied 24v will work the same as a 12v winch supplied with 12v.
24 volts may supply current slightly better,but in general use this will make no difference.

I have a milemaker h12 hydraulic winch. if you want a well built winch that will pull hard all day they are hard to go past I belive. I went the hole hog and made the brum bigger and a faster motor air free spool. I would put up against any electric winch has it will pull 80 foot a min @ 10000 pound in low gear and in high about 2000 pound @ 400 foot a min which is way to fast to use unless you are showing off and then you have to be careful. it cost me about $2500 to $3000 but is a very reliable fast and strong winch. The only problem is if the engine is dead the winch is to, if you can still crank the motor over it will still go untill the battery is dead. So not that much different to a electric winch as long as the engine is not siezed.

i have a warn xd9500 winch i did a test on a near vertical wall 15m long
with a landcruiser.
winched 2meters till hot 40 sec winching then dual battery amps wont run down to much as second battery has spare amps as well as keeping rpm up in high charge range 2000rpm+of a alternator .
then 40sec of winching =2meters of line if you dont get that sort of speed then its your battery is dead
or not of suitable size.
same winch with patrol same wall
on single battery would pull up wall the first 6 meters but after that the
battery reqed re charging 10 mins on wall
put a new acdelco bat in, there big and good price @ R &E autos
had my 2 for 4 years still going strong thats 40000km of hard off road

SCANAS wrote:Love to see what ppl say about hydraulic....

I've got 12v Warn Arb Set up and have been dissapointed with it....

For serious winching comps and hardcore recreational I think 24v is the go.. My set-up cuts off after about 10m and will only un spool. I have to wait for five minutes for it to go another 10m. Only running standard 60 series alternator - hoping that's the cause.

Before I go away again i'll get it checked out maybe 200amp alternator/solenoid upgrade and 6hp motor??? But if I had my time again i'd go 24v from the start....

You must have a underlying problem somewhere. I use a OLD warn magnum 2.5hp winch, with an albright solenoid hooked upto two Exide orbital batteries charged by a stock 3F alternator, 60A I think (same as a 62 series).

On the weekend just gone I winched about ~100m probably over half an hour continuous winching only stopping to respool the cable and re position the line. Ran the car engine at 3000rpm the whole time. The batteries got low but never stopped forward progress. Winch motor was bloody hot!

I Have been asked alot of qestions about my winch it is a milemarker made into a Rtype h12 copied the idea from this web site. 4x4winches.com/index.php?page=type_r.htm

stevejl wrote:I Have been asked alot of qestions about my winch it is a milemarker made into a Rtype h12 copied the idea from this web site. 4x4winches.com/index.php?page=type_r.htm

interesting read.
what are the actual specs of the winch it self.
is it just a normal electric winch with a hydraulic motor??
could you have the best of both worlds and convert a hi mount to hydraulic by replacing the electric motor with hydro motor??

im just running the std setup atm

hulsty wrote:

SCANAS wrote:Love to see what ppl say about hydraulic....

I've got 12v Warn Arb Set up and have been dissapointed with it....

For serious winching comps and hardcore recreational I think 24v is the go.. My set-up cuts off after about 10m and will only un spool. I have to wait for five minutes for it to go another 10m. Only running standard 60 series alternator - hoping that's the cause.

Before I go away again i'll get it checked out maybe 200amp alternator/solenoid upgrade and 6hp motor??? But if I had my time again i'd go 24v from the start....

You must have a underlying problem somewhere. I use a OLD warn magnum 2.5hp winch, with an albright solenoid hooked upto two Exide orbital batteries charged by a stock 3F alternator, 60A I think (same as a 62 series).

On the weekend just gone I winched about ~100m probably over half an hour continuous winching only stopping to respool the cable and re position the line. Ran the car engine at 3000rpm the whole time. The batteries got low but never stopped forward progress. Winch motor was bloody hot!

I agree,
I did the same trip using a warn xdc9500 running a single crappy old RACV battery.
Battery only drained 1m from the end of the final winch, 5min later had enough juice to finish the last meter.
Standard alternator on a GQ 4.2 petrol.

I have always liked the idea of a PTO though or a second battery lol.

[quote="stevejl"]I Have been asked alot of qestions about my winch it is a milemarker made into a Rtype h12 copied the idea from this web site. 4x4winches.com/index.php?page=type_r.htm[/quote]

Steve How much dis this entire set up cost? and is it engine driven pump or pto?