Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys .

I'm building a FJ40 which will be mainly used for slow rockcrawling and it will be running a T700 automatic gearbox .
As i haven't done the engine conversion yet and need to pull the box apart to change the main shaft for the transfer adpator , i just wanted to know what modifications people are doing to these gearboxs for hard slow offroad use .
Seen a lot of the buggies were / are running v6's and T700's was curious what they have done to their autos .

And anything i should be aware of as this is my first auto in a 4wd ..

Any help is appreciated

Thanks
Micka1

change it to a 400, a built 700 will neva be as strong as a standard 400, i just got a 400 built with a trick convertor for 3k, that was a complete box, no exchange.

if its the v8 th700 its the same as the 400 but with a overdrive.

i'd put a shift kit in it for psi and you can lower where it changes gears.

zook4fun wrote:if its the v8 th700 its the same as the 400 but with a overdrive.

i'd put a shift kit in it for psi and you can lower where it changes gears.

eerm i used to think so tooo but they are not quite the same,

if you have ever pulled a 400 apart and then a 700 apart you will see the differenece
the 4l80 woudl be comparable to the 400 but its all electronic ( unless manualised)

That said however, the 700r4 is a robust box, if you pay attention to a few items in there,
in no particular order so basics that will help hold your box together
you need the LATE model CASE to start with
beast reaction shell housing
high apply pressure servos ( ie corvette or billet)
boost valves.
shift kit for firming up the shifts
kevlar band and quality fircition's.
big arse tranny cooler with its own fan and a trans temp guage

in a crawler, you wont be using OD much ( at all) so put a non OD torque converter in Basically the only benefit of running a 700r4 in your vehicle will be the super low 1st gear ( which is great!)

i doubt you will have problems with the 700r4, built right they are a robust box.

Jes

zook4fun wrote:if its the v8 th700 its the same as the 400 but with a overdrive.

i'd put a shift kit in it for psi and you can lower where it changes gears.

The V8 700 is the same as the V6 700 only with some upgraded internals. It is not even remotly like a T400.

I would only ever concider a T400 in something punching out 500+hp and used for high speed offroad racing.

micka1 wrote: Seen a lot of the buggies were / are running v6's and T700's was curious what they have done to their autos .

All of the buggies built by Haultech that ran the V6 T700 combo's ran dead stock T700r4 autos.

The T700 auto is a V6 model if it makes a difference

RUFF wrote:

zook4fun wrote:if its the v8 th700 its the same as the 400 but with a overdrive.

i'd put a shift kit in it for psi and you can lower where it changes gears.

The V8 700 is the same as the V6 700 only with some upgraded internals. It is not even remotly like a T400.

I would only ever concider a T400 in something punching out 500+hp and used for high speed offroad racing.

the v6-v8 700r4 are actually internally the same, only the housing ( bolt pattern) is different all parts internal are interchangeable.

Jes

I've been running a bone stock V6 700 for four years in a buggy without a problem. It had 17 years of road use on it before that too

As long as you have enough gearing behind them and not too much power in front of them they are a pretty good box. Without enough gearing behind them they seem to run real hot and don't last long. I imagine running too much power would do the same thing unless you built them up with all the good gear already mentioned.

Try and tie your transfer case adapter into something other than the four main bolts on the back too. The tailhousing isn't very strong. I made up a stiffening rib to tie into the crane hook (or whatever it is) casting on the top.

jessie928 wrote:

RUFF wrote:

zook4fun wrote:if its the v8 th700 its the same as the 400 but with a overdrive.

i'd put a shift kit in it for psi and you can lower where it changes gears.

The V8 700 is the same as the V6 700 only with some upgraded internals. It is not even remotly like a T400.

I would only ever concider a T400 in something punching out 500+hp and used for high speed offroad racing.

the v6-v8 700r4 are actually internally the same, only the housing ( bolt pattern) is different all parts internal are interchangeable.

Jes

They may be interchangable but they are not identical components as far as I have been led to beleive. The V8 box runs more friction plates and a different servo. I forgot to mention the housing was different.

RUFF wrote:

jessie928 wrote:

RUFF wrote:

zook4fun wrote:if its the v8 th700 its the same as the 400 but with a overdrive.

i'd put a shift kit in it for psi and you can lower where it changes gears.

The V8 700 is the same as the V6 700 only with some upgraded internals. It is not even remotly like a T400.

I would only ever concider a T400 in something punching out 500+hp and used for high speed offroad racing.

the v6-v8 700r4 are actually internally the same, only the housing ( bolt pattern) is different all parts internal are interchangeable.

Jes

They may be interchangable but they are not identical components as far as I have been led to beleive. The V8 box runs more friction plates and a different servo. I forgot to mention the housing was different.

i have played with/rebuilt both and they are the same.
some say the friction count is different ( one less) , thay may have been in earliyer boxes???
but the servos are the same,
what your thinking of may be the govenor, as they MAY have different weights or spring tensions in them to alter the shift point in relation to RPM.

also, the v6 torque converter will act like small stallie if used behind a v8


Jes


[/u]

Wendle wrote: Without enough gearing behind them they seem to run real hot and don't last long.

When Ford & Holden changed to 4 speed boxes way back when this became a problem (same as the brake wear). The boxes worked harder due to the extra power & weight of the newer model vehicles they were fitted to.

I cannot remember a Borg Warner 35/Trimatic cooking the oil with normal use but have seen plenty of it with the BTR & T700. Holden had an issue in the VS where they would overheat on trips & cark it, even when not towing.

A good oil cooler will help, I have one on my VT & it has never cooked the oil.

micka1 wrote:Hey guys .

I'm building a FJ40 which will be mainly used for slow rockcrawling and it will be running a T700 automatic gearbox .
As i haven't done the engine conversion yet and need to pull the box apart to change the main shaft for the transfer adpator , i just wanted to know what modifications people are doing to these gearboxs for hard slow offroad use .
Seen a lot of the buggies were / are running v6's and T700's was curious what they have done to their autos .

And anything i should be aware of as this is my first auto in a 4wd ..

Any help is appreciated

Thanks
Micka1

Talk to Rob at B&B Autoworks in Kirrawee, he is a guru with these auto's he rebuilt and modified one for my lux and it was bulletproof!!!!
Modified all the oil galleries, pickups etc, filled it up with a heap of corvette bits, had the convertor mucked around with.
It shifted really smooth and just worked great, even with twin hilux cases behind it 1st gear low, low was awesome!!!!
even sorted out the convertor lockup to work properly for highway.

Cheers Chris

RUFF wrote:
They may be interchangable but they are not identical components as far as I have been led to beleive.

Tony you are correct.
My Brother inlaw builds performance autos for a living. He pretty much said they are like chalk and cheese. With money they can be beefed right up for big power tho.
On the topic tho i am with Ruff and Wendle. Great auto for a buggy application. Straight out of a running crappa aswell. Great 1st gear and cheep. I would use the full hydro box and not the electronic later version tho. Big cooler and make shore the fluid is allways high.
Only thing i did to mine was new filter and pan gasket.

If running big gears in a transfer or diff tho i would look at the C4.

Keep it in Low range & invest in a large cooler that has a good fan on it..
Doubt you'll have an issue..

High range, decent HP & big tyres will kill most stock autos..

Thanks everyone for the feedback .
We have pulled the auto down , changed the mainshaft over and we put a rebuild kit through it at the same time whilst it was apart , will put it all in and use it and see how it holds up .. i figure if it lasts a year or two and dies i'll just pick one up from a wrecker cheap as and throw it in there again ( only paid $50 for this one )

Will take everyones advice and run a big cooler and fan on it and see how it goes , was also told by the auto place i spoke to to run synthetic oil in it ?

Thanks Micka1

nottie wrote:

RUFF wrote:
They may be interchangable but they are not identical components as far as I have been led to beleive.

Tony you are correct.
My Brother inlaw builds performance autos for a living. He pretty much said they are like chalk and cheese. With money they can be beefed right up for big power tho.
On the topic tho i am with Ruff and Wendle. Great auto for a buggy application. Straight out of a running crappa aswell. Great 1st gear and cheep. I would use the full hydro box and not the electronic later version tho. Big cooler and make shore the fluid is allways high.
Only thing i did to mine was new filter and pan gasket.

If running big gears in a transfer or diff tho i would look at the C4.

so what your " brother in law" is saying is that the v6 and V8 versions are different? even though there is only 1 rebuild kit that coveres both types, and all the internals are interchangeable BOTH ways?

Jes

jessie928 wrote:

nottie wrote:

RUFF wrote:
They may be interchangable but they are not identical components as far as I have been led to beleive.

Tony you are correct.
My Brother inlaw builds performance autos for a living. He pretty much said they are like chalk and cheese. With money they can be beefed right up for big power tho.
On the topic tho i am with Ruff and Wendle. Great auto for a buggy application. Straight out of a running crappa aswell. Great 1st gear and cheep. I would use the full hydro box and not the electronic later version tho. Big cooler and make shore the fluid is allways high.
Only thing i did to mine was new filter and pan gasket.

If running big gears in a transfer or diff tho i would look at the C4.

so what your " brother in law" is saying is that the v6 and V8 versions are different? even though there is only 1 rebuild kit that coveres both types, and all the internals are interchangeable BOTH ways?

Jes

Would you like his number so you can debate it with him?

from memory the only difference is the input shaft internal wise.

nottie wrote:

jessie928 wrote:

nottie wrote:

RUFF wrote:
They may be interchangable but they are not identical components as far as I have been led to beleive.

Tony you are correct.
My Brother inlaw builds performance autos for a living. He pretty much said they are like chalk and cheese. With money they can be beefed right up for big power tho.
On the topic tho i am with Ruff and Wendle. Great auto for a buggy application. Straight out of a running crappa aswell. Great 1st gear and cheep. I would use the full hydro box and not the electronic later version tho. Big cooler and make shore the fluid is allways high.
Only thing i did to mine was new filter and pan gasket.

If running big gears in a transfer or diff tho i would look at the C4.

so what your " brother in law" is saying is that the v6 and V8 versions are different? even though there is only 1 rebuild kit that coveres both types, and all the internals are interchangeable BOTH ways?

Jes

Would you like his number so you can debate it with him?

no i dont need to debate what is obvious.
i have a couple on the floor of my shed and on the bench in bits and rebuilt

telling people " they are different" is a transmission workshops way of justifying the difference in cost for rebuilding a V8 one and a V6 one.

Cheers,
Jes

PS, to be sure we are on the same page, we are talking about a 700r4 with the TV cable.

Jes

jessie928 wrote:

nottie wrote:

jessie928 wrote:

nottie wrote:

RUFF wrote:
They may be interchangable but they are not identical components as far as I have been led to beleive.

Tony you are correct.
My Brother inlaw builds performance autos for a living. He pretty much said they are like chalk and cheese. With money they can be beefed right up for big power tho.
On the topic tho i am with Ruff and Wendle. Great auto for a buggy application. Straight out of a running crappa aswell. Great 1st gear and cheep. I would use the full hydro box and not the electronic later version tho. Big cooler and make shore the fluid is allways high.
Only thing i did to mine was new filter and pan gasket.

If running big gears in a transfer or diff tho i would look at the C4.

so what your " brother in law" is saying is that the v6 and V8 versions are different? even though there is only 1 rebuild kit that coveres both types, and all the internals are interchangeable BOTH ways?

Jes

Would you like his number so you can debate it with him?

no i dont need to debate what is obvious.
i have a couple on the floor of my shed and on the bench in bits and rebuilt

telling people " they are different" is a transmission workshops way of justifying the difference in cost for rebuilding a V8 one and a V6 one.

Cheers,
Jes

PS, to be sure we are on the same page, we are talking about a 700r4 with the TV cable.

Jes

No need to justify a rebuild cost. AS stated he doesnt do basic rebuilds.
All autos he builds are for a performance application.

The ones i have ever played with always usd generally the same internals. Most of the bits i ever use come from TCI and apart from a few oddball models in the US most of the stuff is interchangeable (and even with 4l60's)
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/GM/gm_4L60E.asp
this gives a good listing of the bits

I just got pulled the v6 transmission out of my shorty. I had it hooked up to the v8 with an adaptor kit. It had only done 30,000 k's & I had done some damage to a few things & I also trashed the convertor. I got hold of a v8 transmission that needed a reco. I beefed up 3rd & 4th gear clutches & used everything except the input shaft & pump out of the v6 box.
The splines on the v6 input shaft is different to the v8 box & so is the length. The pump is also different due to the input shafts length. Other then that the rest of the internal are the same.
The T700 is good for about 300-350 hp in standard trim. However I have nowhere near that much power but managed to twist my output shaft on my transmission hence the rebuild.

croozy wrote:I just got pulled the v6 transmission out of my shorty. I had it hooked up to the v8 with an adaptor kit. It had only done 30,000 k's & I had done some damage to a few things & I also trashed the convertor. I got hold of a v8 transmission that needed a reco. I beefed up 3rd & 4th gear clutches & used everything except the input shaft & pump out of the v6 box.
The splines on the v6 input shaft is different to the v8 box & so is the length. The pump is also different due to the input shafts length. Other then that the rest of the internal are the same.
The T700 is good for about 300-350 hp in standard trim. However I have nowhere near that much power but managed to twist my output shaft on my transmission hence the rebuild.

yeah the v6 converter matches the v6 spine count on the input shaft, the length is also different due to the belhousing being a tad longer on the v8 one.

is your output shaft the marks one?

JEs

Actually both transmissions are the same length. I had to redo the gearbox mount because when I pulled the v6 adaptor out I had to move things forward the thickness of the adaptor. The longer v8 input shaft is mainly due to the convnvertor being a bigger item.

The old output shaft was a Marks item. The way they used to do them was to shorten the shaft & then respline them to suit the spud shaft inthe transfer case. The new shaft is just the standard holden one but you cut them down now yourself because they changed the internal spline in the new spud shafts, much better if you have got hold of a reco box because you don't have to pull it down now like you did with the old kits just to put an output shaft in.

croozy wrote:Actually both transmissions are the same length. I had to redo the gearbox mount because when I pulled the v6 adaptor out I had to move things forward the thickness of the adaptor. The longer v8 input shaft is mainly due to the convnvertor being a bigger item.

The old output shaft was a Marks item. The way they used to do them was to shorten the shaft & then respline them to suit the spud shaft inthe transfer case. The new shaft is just the standard holden one but you cut them down now yourself because they changed the internal spline in the new spud shafts, much better if you have got hold of a reco box because you don't have to pull it down now like you did with the old kits just to put an output shaft in.

your probably 100% correct i think i measured it along the case.

so no more swap over output shaft from marks? when did they change it to this system, and i wonder why they didnt do this from the beginning?