Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi,

I'd like to ask if anybody has done a double transfer case install in a Roza.
I am thinking about the possibility of putting a samurai TC after the feroza. This would have a significant effect and improvement on the crawl ratio of the roza. Im still planning to use 32" tires so as not to stress the driveline.

Problems I see is the very short wheel base which might not have enough room for a propeller shaft and the center pumpkin of the rear differential which might not mate properly with the right side offset of the samurai TC. Anybody care to comment?

Length will kill you - I'd go as far as to say not possible........

If you want to fix the problem of Feroza box and transfer properly then go auto with a Vitara case and gears. Still a challenge.... but mine works

I've seen a Sierra case used instead of the roza case..... but then youve still got the crappy Feroza clutch and gearbox and angles/lengths were still a bit nasty.

Auto and Vit case are the vay to go if you want to FIX the issues rather than just move them around.

And no matter what you do your up for the parts costs - gears cost what they cost and components in good condition are the same.

Still if you want to do it - do it PROPERLY.

Hi MM,

Didnt fully understand your suggestion. Yours currently use an automatic Vitara transmission and Transfer case? Did you have problems making the adaptor to the bell housing? How much improvement did you achieve with the crawl ratio? Would appreciate more info. ty

Feroza's were available in automatic.

The automatic gearbox used in the 4 speed automatic vitara and the automatic feroza is the Aisin-Warner AW-4, a very strong and reliable automatic.

Therefore if you source the bellhousing, flexplate and possibly torque converter from an automatic feroza, you can bolt all this to a vitara automatic, and use the vitara transfer case, which you can purchase 4.2:1 reduction gears for.

no adapters are required.

driveshaft modifications, crossmember modifications, and possibly some wiring work (unless you also use the automatic transmission computer from the feroza as well, probably the best option)


I'm unsure what 1st gear is in a feroza manual, but with the AW-4 has a 3:1 first gear, + a 2.4:1 converter ratio, + 4.24 transfer + 5.29 diff gears, you'll have quite a lot of crawl ratio - 66:1 without converter, and 159:1 allowing full converter slip.

you'll also pick up lots of capability just because of the auto (auto's are much better to drive in difficult terrain)

This conversion involves sourcing more parts than trying to jam another transfer behind the feroza one, but it IS possible - Mightymouse's car runs the setup I'm describing above and it is very reliable and effective.

Steve.

Steve has the gist of it......

Actually the Feroza auto is an A44D from the factory not an A44DE ( Electric shift ) as used in the Vitara - the A44DE is the one to use IMO as the electric shift is MAGIC off road.

This can all be made to bolt together with the right parts, but some fabrication is required ( bolt on mostly ) to get the engine/tranmission angles right.

Just keep in mind that the lower crawl ratio isn't going to be Feroza Diff frendly - I'm running a modified HiAce banjo, Hilux centre and 5.285:1 gears ( to match front), Hilux airlocker, custom axles ( Feroza stud pattern ) and disk brakes. Custom Tailshafts etc etc. Not breakable.....

The A44 series autos also allow other motor options. I've got a Mazda BPD turbo engine complete with bellhousing to the A44DE and converter etc..... 153kw ( IIRC ) from the factory

However work of this magnitude is not free, DON'T start if your not serious - but the results are VERY VERY significant.

PM me if your seriously interested

Feroza 5-speed manual ratios:

1st - 3.752
2nd - 2.182
3rd - 1.428
4th - 1.000
5th - .865


AW-4 Auto ratios:

1st - 2.804
2nd - 1.531
3rd - 1.00
4th - 0.753 (0.79 pre-1991)

PM sent MM

Hi MM, I sent you PM.

The feroza automatic transmission unfortunately was never sold here in the Philippines . So looking for a bellhousing for a Feroza automatic I think would be like finding a needle in a haystack. I also would prefer to go manual if possible, Do I still have any options?

Would swapping the feroza transfer case with a vitara transfer case a no-no? I have searched the Calmini gears and would love to put them in a modified Feroza. 3.752 (1st gear) x 4.24 (tranfer case ratio) x 5.285 (final drive ratio) = 84 Wow more than I can possibly ask for! I was only dreaming of a crawl ratio of about 50. .

BTW Im not very familiar with a Vitara. Since I don't intend to do SAS in the meantime, is the vitara front pumpkin located in the left side when you look at it from the front the same with a Feroza?

wacky wrote:Feroza 5-speed manual ratios:

1st - 3.752
2nd - 2.182
3rd - 1.428
4th - 1.000
5th - .865


AW-4 Auto ratios:

1st - 2.804
2nd - 1.531
3rd - 1.00
4th - 0.753 (0.79 pre-1991)

Yes, but 2.8 X 2.4 (converter stall ratio) = 6.72:1 first gear.

There is no comparison between the capability of a manual car and automatic offroad. auto every time.

Steve.

I am curious, perhaps you might help me. I have one manual feroza and two manual jap import Rockies. ie all 1600 cc petrol versions.
A friend has an auto Feroza. He is able to tackle hills as well as can I, If they are dry. He sometimes need stop half way up, when they are wet, and begin again, which is successful, though I beat him over the hill easily.
Going down however is another story. He won't tackle steep, wet declines which I handle easily. His front brakes lock, causing him to sledge. Most unnerving.
His tyre's are more suited for muddy conditions than are my all terrains, yet I cope better than he does. Any comments...aside from "He Can't drive."
BTW, he can take my manuals, where he can't his auto?
Cheers.

Gearing on autos is critical, otherwise they run away down hill ( as you have noted ), and Feroza's transfers are lousy to start with.

The ability of the auto to apply progressive power when stationary ( like climbing a ledge ) allows you to creep up things that a manual just couldn't do.

Also the converter adds significantly to the available torque and once again this makes low speed work much better.

I'd suggest the type of driving you do, probably just doesn't require the sort of bonus the auto provides. Go rock climbing etc etc and you'll be convinced.

Oh and BTW my 4.3 transfer and auto doesn't run away... in fact even on the steepest of descents I have to keep the throttle on otherwise it will stop. From memory my reduction ratio is around 160:1 with the converter.

There have been many many discussion on the auto vs manual thing for off road use here and on other forums - all make very interesting reading,

MM 'but' is yours not a much modified machine? *S* Is it fair to compare with a stock standard manual feroza? I'm ignorant on such things.
I wonder though if one had unlimited cash to spend, on developing a hard core off roader, starting with 2 of the same base model, (aside from one being manual, the other auto) with live front axle, heaps of clearance, lockers etc etc... which vehicle would be better? Or might one be better on some terrain, but not another and vice verca. Driver skill would come into it also. What think you?

Driver skill is always a factor... an idiot can make a good car look bad.

My opinion on the "better" theme is the auto would win every time - Mouse started life as a manual and went auto so i've driven the same car in both formats, in mud / sand / rock etc.

In the end you make you own call on the issue but drive a well setup auto vs a well setup manual and I'd suggest you would take the auto.

I know its a difficult thing to accept, I wouldn't have an auto road car but off road.......