Outer Limits 4x4 Board

100 series 94 sahara, Milford cargo barrier (from top of drawers to roof).

Is there anything difficult about installing these buggers? I cannot for the life of me figure out how to mount it without chopping interior plastic...

Can anyone recommend someone around Penrith who does installs?

lump_a_charcoal wrote:100 series 94 sahara, Milford cargo barrier (from top of drawers to roof).

Is there anything difficult about installing these buggers? I cannot for the life of me figure out how to mount it without chopping interior plastic...

Can anyone recommend someone around Penrith who does installs?

Get onto a Milford distributor or them direct and get the instructions but it is likely that you will have to drill or cut into the plastic. I installed one into my GU a couple fo years ago and it involved drilling a hole about 22mm in the plastic roof trim then another hole in the roof channel and inserting a captive nut plate. Not sure about Cruisers though. But for comparison the Black Widow version for GU's uses a mounting plate that is bolted under the rear grab handle or in palce of the rear grab handle and then the barrier mount arm bolted to that. Much nicer than drilign such big holes in trim if you want to remove and retain the barrier for next vehicle or ffor sale.

I think you'll find they say the barrier doesn't suit the sahara due to the rear air con ducting. I need a barrier in mine and emailed milford but had no reply. They have that strapping type barrier but its not want I want. May have to do a custom job for saharas

Had a look in at ARB yesterday, they had a GXL in there with a Milford barrier too - It had ducted Air into the 3rd row, with the barrier.

Sounds expensive to fit it, was quoted about $450 including supply of a new mounting kit!

Depends what he has. I noticed the 100 series reference but didn't notice the year 94??. Correct if 80 series saraha no go but they do do a couple of versions for Saharas or other models with rear air in the 100 series.

I've just noticed their mesh barriers. I actually like the idea if they clip in and out quickly and could fit the 80 Sahara??? Must look into that one a bit more myself.

What have you got Linc an 80 or 100 series.

To mount them the way Milford suggest can be time consuming if my old GU was anything to go by and their ideas on mounting leave a lot of room for stuff ups by average installers who don't really care. I'm sure when I bought my mounting kit it was about $75 but I ended up changing it a fair bit anyway as in the Patrol they wanted you to drill new holes in the floor and I hate that. So I remade the side mounting lugs and welded them up higher so the locating aarms could bolt to the holes where the third row seats mounted to the wheel arch.

$450 is a fair bit cause if they've done a few and the 100/80 is not overly difficult it shouldn't take them that long to do.

I have a 100 series Sahara (shit now I sound like barnsey).

I'll shop around a bit, surely someone can do it for less then that...

all i did when mounting mine was mounted the top mounts to the third row grab handles and made some brackets up and bolted the lower mounts to the cargo draws that way i didnt have to drill into the side of the car. and if you need to remove it later it still all new like and no holes present

Yeah I might try that, how did it mount to the upper handles?

Handle bolts are small - not recommened.

Milford supplies a fittign kit - it load spreads with multiple bolts.
yes - it's a drill job.

Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Handle bolts are small - not recommened.

Second that - DO NOT use the grab handle screws. They are simply too small.

Look at the arms. If they're anything like mine, they've got "crinkle" sections in them, which are designed to straighten during an impact, and decelerate the cargo behind the barrier more gradually. This ultimately reduces the forces involved, and helps the barrier to keep the occupants safe.

Have a look at the thickness of those bars, and imagine the force required to pull them straight. That's the size of the forces we're talking about here. Do you seriously believe the grab handle mounting screws can cope with that level of shear force? The screws will shear and the barrier will fall forward.

This is a safety device. Install it properly, or don't kid yourself that it's anything more than a rollbar.

I think they mount at the handles, not to them. Fairly sure a bolt is installed in between the handle mounts...

if you can use a 12.9 grade bolt which will have a high shear force and from memory the holes in the mounting bracket arent that much bigger than the grab handle bolts. like i say each to there own.

If I wanted to skimp - I would make a bar between the 2 handle mounts.
I suspect the captive nut behind the handle would tear out without too much force.

Paul

well i guess that is what i get when i buy my cargo barrier off ebay 2nd hand and dont get the proper fitting kit with it. so i will make do with the way i have mounted it and hope it helps some others out who are in the same situation as me and dont want to drill any holes into the body of there 4wd. i am not going to loose any sleep over it

ledgend80 wrote:well i guess that is what i get when i buy my cargo barrier off ebay 2nd hand and dont get the proper fitting kit with it. so i will make do with the way i have mounted it and hope it helps some others out who are in the same situation as me and dont want to drill any holes into the body of there 4wd. i am not going to loose any sleep over it

Bought mine off eBay too.
Fitting kit was $70ish from memory.

Paul

bits of steel and bolts from work free and no other holes in the 4wd

I can vouch for NOT using the grab handle bolts.

I had my cargo barrier just behind my front seats (rear and middle seats removed) and used the grab handle bolts to mount the top brackets.

I had a head on smash and the top bolts snapped when the fridge and toolbox hit the barrier.
The straps that were holding the fridge and toolbox snapped.
The barrier moved forward and forced the upright part of the front seats forward, kinda trapping me in the seat.
Bottom bolts didn't budge. Can kinda see the cargo barrier in the 2nd pic.

May not happen to you but that's the whole point of the cargo barrier isn't it?

nabstud wrote:

Far out I'd hate to see the other car.

its strange, the cargo barrier thatcomes with the black widow draw system, uses the rear grab hadlel bolts, the bolts are replaced with high tensile bolts,

dont forget, that when loading your vehicle, the load must be placed against the cargo barrier, if not your load will accelerate a lot more than if its hard up against it in the first place,

nabstud wrote:I can vouch for NOT using the grab handle bolts.

I had my cargo barrier just behind my front seats (rear and middle seats removed) and used the grab handle bolts to mount the top brackets.

I had a head on smash and the top bolts snapped when the fridge and toolbox hit the barrier.
The straps that were holding the fridge and toolbox snapped.
The barrier moved forward and forced the upright part of the front seats forward, kinda trapping me in the seat.
Bottom bolts didn't budge. Can kinda see the cargo barrier in the 2nd pic.

May not happen to you but that's the whole point of the cargo barrier isn't it?

Look at the bright side - no other holes in your 4wd.

ledgend80 wrote: dont want to drill any holes into the body of there 4wd. i am not going to loose any sleep over it

if those pics and story don't make you stop and think how stupid it is to mount a 10 kg steel frame in your car only using m6 bolts and bits of steel from work,then you deserve what will happen to you when it breaks.

unfortunately your wife/kids/friends who are injured or killed from your neglegence will not deserve it.

moron.

dat383 wrote:if those pics and story don't make you stop and think how stupid it is to mount a 10 kg steel frame in your car only using m6 bolts and bits of steel from work,then you deserve what will happen to you when it breaks.

unfortunately your wife/kids/friends who are injured or killed from your neglegence will not deserve it.

Please - argue all you like, but don't make it personal. It starts with name-calling, and ends with thread removal. Let's not go there.

Use rivets!

Seriously, is it the bolts or the holes that aren't up to snuff? M6 high tensile bolts are fairly strong, if whatever they are getting screwed into is strong enough.

chimpboy wrote:Use rivets!

Seriously, is it the bolts or the holes that aren't up to snuff? M6 high tensile bolts are fairly strong, if whatever they are getting screwed into is strong enough.

There's also the difference between tensile strength & shear strength. AFAIK, bolts are intended to create clamping forces, and friction between clamped faces constrains shear forces - not the bolts. The upper mounts on my cargo barrier are large (imperial) bolts - probably 7/16" or larger.

chimpboy wrote:Seriously, is it the bolts or the holes that aren't up to snuff? M6 high tensile bolts are fairly strong, if whatever they are getting screwed into is strong enough.

In my case, I'm not sure if the bolts snapped or the captive nuts got pulled out.

Other car was a Mercedes 4x4 ute, was a bit worse off... Funny thing is they they bought a Patrol to replace it!!!

Maybe 100 series grab handle mounts are much stronger? My new patrol has a cargo barrier in the back and uses a M12 or M14 bolts, drilled/installed between the existing grab handle bolts.

nabstud wrote: Maybe 100 series grab handle mounts are much stronger? My new patrol has a cargo barrier in the back and uses a M12 or M14 bolts, drilled/installed between the existing grab handle bolts.

100 is the same. I think the biggest thing is the largish load spreader plate that goes in behind - stops the thin steel tearing out.

Rivets wouldn't work for the main dowel, as the force is not only in shear, and you need more than the clamping force between the plates. They woudl work well to secure the load spread plate though. Rivets are best in load spread flat panel applications. Aircraft use one or two here and there - cept for those new litte planes made of plastic and glue (787 / A380)

Paul

Don't forget the common-sense application of tying down heavy items so they don't need to hit the cargo barrier.

Especially tool-boxes. Fridges I can understand being kind of loose.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:If I wanted to skimp - I would make a bar between the 2 handle mounts.
I suspect the captive nut behind the handle would tear out without too much force.

Paul

That is exactly how the Black Widow ones are mounted into a GU. A flat bar strap across the grab handle 2 mounting points then the large bolt in the middle that the actual barrier bracket mounts to.

All the Milford design does is mount a short length of flat bar inside the roof rail with a small bolt either side to hold it in place and the bigger one in the middle to affix the barrier bracket to. So how strong really is this mount compared to the other, given you now have a spreader plate about 60-70mm long behind a thin sheet panel which now has 3 decent holes in it close together, the middle one from memory being something like 20-22mm. and if my memory serves none of the bolts supplied in the Milford kit are of a high tensile specification. The other thing to remember is the locating straps are kinked to take up the load in an accident like the crumple zones in your front bar. I wonder if Mr Milford actually designed them to take the load of say a fridge at the very back hitting the barrier at the front most point. The previous comment about loading the heavy stuff against the barrier is very pertinent. I don't think the barriers were ever designed to take that kind of impact load. I see advertising where they act as roll bars andI think that is crap also.

fester2au wrote: The other thing to remember is the locating straps are kinked to take up the load in an accident like the crumple zones in your front bar. I wonder if Mr Milford actually designed them to take the load of say a fridge at the very back hitting the barrier at the front most point. The previous comment about loading the heavy stuff against the barrier is very pertinent. I don't think the barriers were ever designed to take that kind of impact load. I see advertising where they act as roll bars andI think that is crap also.

There is actually a standard they have to meet - I don't remember the details. 40KG at some speed I think.

The "pretend roll cage" pics always make me laugh. They show a variety of pics of a rolled 4wds that has landed on it's A pillar (very common roll) - with a heavily crumpleve A pillar / windscreen, somewhat crumpled B pillar, and intactish C pillar. The claim is the C pillar is intact due to the barrier. In reality, this is the normal crumple behavior for most "over the front wheel" rolls I have seen. I'm sure some additional strength helps, but not what I want to hang my life on. I wonder if CAMS would accept it as a cage

Paul