Outer Limits 4x4 Board

My current bar has to be given the toss because I'm fitting 31's, need to trim the crossmember outriggers, and the alloy is too weak to only mount to the chassis with no support at the outer edges. So not having a pipe bender handy I've gone another route - 150PFC. Have started making it up tonight but would appreciate suggestions on how to make it better that I might not have thought of...

Total weight should end up about 35kg mounted. It's not really visible in my mock up but the front face of the bar sweeps back from the joint near the centre to the outside edge. I'll get a workshop to bend up the bar for me.

nice one. do a rear one whiile u are there for a spare mount

enjoying wa yet?

thats cool =) - dont bend up bar - keep using the square tubing to make the arch - it'll have a way better finish i reckon... nice n square like the zuk its stuck to!

be sure to drill and crush tube the bar work through to the chassis so you have recovery points up front as well =D

Here, something i drew up... uses round bar on the top crossover and square for the rest...

are you taking orders
looks like it will be neat. how much work do you think is in making it

Nice work alien - after your suggestion last night, that's what I've been thinking. Will be a bit more angle grinding and welding work to do it but it should look schmik!

I'm thinking 75x50x4 RHS, 75mm wide at the bottom to match the top flange of the PFC and tapering to 45mm wide at the top. The rear face of the RHS will be vertical so the front will lean back. Then a 42.4x2.6 CHS cross bar. Total weight of the cross bar assembly should be about 6.5kg's which isn't much more than I'd allowed for a tube bar.

I think I like the way the end sections on yours sweep back as well as taper (ie the rear edge of the bar isn't a straight line). I currently have it cut for a slight taper only (tapers from 75mm to 50mm at end of bar) but could very easily sweep it back another 25mm.

Nic - yup, enjoying WA. Some things are a bit .... weird .... but that's to be expected! Will look at doing a rear one later. At the moment I just want to get alien's old 31's on!!

smileysmoke - definitely not taking orders! But doesn't seem that much work. Spent about 2 hours on it last night and got the main front member and one side cut - think the other side should only take about an hour because I was learning how best to cut 9.5mm steel with a 5" angle grinder last night. Then welding it together. At the rate I'm going I think I'll have the bar proper finished in maybe 7-8 hours, allow another 5 to cut and weld the cross bar, then a few hours stuffing around with mounts. I'm not the quickest...

More ideas:



1) is the first one, square finish

2) would mean cutting "V's" out the back and bending the front around

3) is shortening of (1) and using more bits to taper the bar back around for a wrap.

option (1) is not technically legal as theres no sideways deflection of a pedestrian at the outermost edge. It could be made legal by 45ing the tips back leaving a point at the edge of the flares (not an issue).

Thanks mate - the drawings are helpful. Haven't decided how to finish the ends off yet, I'm leaving them about 50mm long and will work out what will look best once the bar is fitted up. I might yet wrap the bar around to the flare if that's what will look right in which case I'll 45 the corner. Option 2 ain't an option for me 'cos the web is 6mm thick ... I don't think I'll be bending it in a hurry!!!

Coupla quick 'n nasty photos of tonight's work below. Didn't get too much done as I only had about an hour and a half free after work, but the first half is welded together and roughly tidied up. I've V-notched the joints about 3mm and welded front and back.

Am welding using 70A DC with 2.5mm rods which is slowish but gives me control (first time welding in ... um, forever?). Penetration is only about 2mm hence the V-notch. I welded back and front on a couple of spare bits of 9.5mm flange without notching, cut a section and had 5mm left unwelded hence about 2mm penetration each weld. Tried higher amperage for more penetration but couldn't get the feel of the weld and ended up with a nasty, holey finish.

looks good .. whats it weigh ?

150PFC is 17.7kg/m ... the centre bit is 0.7m long and the wings are currently 0.4m long but are missing a wedge of the web. I think weight should be:

- Main bar (23kg approx)
- Mounts (4kg approx)
- Cross bar assembly (6.5kg approx)

Total approx 33.5kg. I think my current alloy bar weighs about 20kg so not too hefty an increase. Will weigh both and post the results once I'm done.

Moph wrote:150PFC is 17.7kg/m ... the centre bit is 0.7m long and the wings are currently 0.4m long but are missing a wedge of the web. I think weight should be:

- Main bar (23kg approx)
- Mounts (4kg approx)
- Cross bar assembly (6.5kg approx)

Total approx 33.5kg. I think my current alloy bar weighs about 20kg so not too hefty an increase. Will weigh both and post the results once I'm done.

Obviously you have thought about it .. Would like to see the finished product.

Okay, no photos of tonight's work

Lessons learnt:

1) Measure twice, THINK, cut once! (blindly followed my cutting plan forgetting that there was a slight correction I'd applied to the right hand side)
2) When you correctly position the two halves you're trying to weld together and have a 7mm gap between them, don't cut a 400mm long x 6mm wide strip of steel and try to weld it in the gap...
3) When you try (2) and end up with a very nasty weld as a result, take the time to get ALL the slag off before you lay another thick globby weld over the top.......!



Will start fresh again tomorrow. Fortunately there was enough length in the offcuts I bought to allow for some mistakes.

Oh - also learnt that a bandanna around your mouth might not be a bad idea when welding sitting on the ground. My lips are a bit burnt from reflected UV under my mask....

What a day - never learnt this much in a day at Uni!

Little bit more done today - main bar is welded up and ready for mounts. Didn't think it out too well though - because my Lightforce XGTs are so chunky I'm either going to have to set the bar way out from the front (looks stupid) or recess the back of my lights into the grille.

I'm leaning towards butchering the grille and recessing the lights. That'll leave the bar in about the position it is in in the photos below:

Work out the area in meters squared and multiply 7840kgs and you'll have a fairly accurate weight in kgs. Easy!!!!

looking good - bar definitely needs to come back to wrap the flares to finish it off though!!

Moph wrote:150PFC is 17.7kg/m ... the centre bit is 0.7m long and the wings are currently 0.4m long but are missing a wedge of the web. I think weight should be:

- Main bar (23kg approx)
- Mounts (4kg approx)
- Cross bar assembly (6.5kg approx)

Total approx 33.5kg. I think my current alloy bar weighs about 20kg so not too hefty an increase. Will weigh both and post the results once I'm done.

Looks

Just for your reference, my old ARB non winch bar wieghed in at close to 25 kg's

Today's work - made up the mounts and started welding them in. Struggled to get motivated given that I've got Queen's Birthday holiday tomorrow (woohoo!!!) and only got a couple of hours work done.

Please don't look at the welds Tomorrow's work to cut that one back and redo...

Basically 130H x 65W x 10T plate welded into the PFC, then that funky shaped one which is also 10mm thick. Should place the rear edge of the bar 65-70mm from the front of the clip.

Should I weld a right angle piece onto the mounts to give them some lateral rigidity? Would also stiffen the mounts against compression buckling in a front-on impact.

Oh - and I measured the weight of the bar today. The alloy one I took off was 20kg on the dot; currently my new bar with mounts sits at 29kg. Looks like 35kg then with the crossbar. A bit heavier than I'd like but should be solid

yeah that look like it will want to parrallellogram the mount plates - i'd gusset it side-side and triangulate everything as much as possible. In the end the bars only as strong as how its mounted and what its mounted to =)

How are you going to tackle lights? (park and indicator etc?)

Park lights are built into my headlight reflectors - just need to hook 'em up. Indicators I'll go a strip light down the side of the clip alongside the headlight.

The one thing that's worrying me is the 'what its mounted to' bit. 100 x 50 x 2.5 RHS with 2/M10 8.8S bolts each side ain't brilliant, especially as any impact will cause leverage on the bolts not just straight compression. I can't see my way clear to any better solution at this point though.

i reckon its always going to have that leverage issue mounted like that - best to just allow for it in the design so if it does ever take a big hit it doesnt come back to the radiator (put something in its way).

i reckon it'd look cool if you put a plate between the two mount tongue things at the bottom - it'd be like an incorporated bash plate as well as giving sideways stability.

take more pics of the bare front end - maybe someone here has a better idea for mounting it without the leverage effect?

Okay ... had some other priorities to sort out and haven't been able to touch it for the last two months.

Made up one of the vertical supports tonight and chopped up a mockup. I was sitting when taking the photo - when standing the bottom of the cross bar will line up with the lip of the bonnet:



What I can't decide is whether to have the upright (1) dead vertical, (2) a little raked or (3) raked to match the front of the car. Thoughts?

looks good, recon have it a little raked back looks good.

good work so far.

this bar looks real good

i like the 2nd one.. jmo

2nd pic looks best

Great - will go with (2). I'll sweep it back 25mm at the top to match the ends of the main bar. Cheers

i agree - 2nd one... the first looks lazy and the last one looks bent...

...so when's it going to be finished? =)

alien wrote:...so when's it going to be finished? =)

No idea! Out this morning, but hope to get the other upright and cross bar welded up and in place this avo. Then need some checker plate as a bash plate between the supports, a couple of recovery hooks on the sides of the supports, a good paint, and some indicators. Can't find the recessed ones like yours anywhere

Will be driveable as soon as I finish the ends of the bar off though - can cable tie indicators in place for the moment. I've decided to just weld a flat plate on the end of the bar to finish the ends off - anything else is too much work and will look a bit meh IMO. The left hand side of the bar above is cut ready for an 8mm end plate - the edge of the bar will line up with the bottom outer edge of the flare.

Hoping to get out for some beach runs over Xmas if possible - moving house on 24-25 December though so don't know how that'll go!

moving house is way more fun than the beach.... sand is boring =)

As for indicators/park lights:
http://db.hella.com.au/cgi-bin/catalogu ... maint=2097
http://db.hella.com.au/cgi-bin/catalogu ... maint=1059

Hella 2056:


Hella 2055:


Mounting:

Thanks Aron - will try ordering them through Repco.

Had visitors for lunch / avo so didn't get heaps done. Second upright is done, both uprights welded in place ... both have about a 2-3mm lean to the right but ya get that. Cross bar is tacked in place and the bar's off for full welding and cap plates (ends of bar and top of uprights).

No photos cos its dark and I'm stuffed!

Moph wrote:


What I can't decide is whether to have the upright (1) dead vertical, (2) a little raked or (3) raked to match the front of the car. Thoughts?

Will your lights be protected if you rake it back?
Peter.

droopypete wrote:Will your lights be protected if you rake it back?
Peter.

Nope. Unfortunately they're unlikely to be protected much no matter how I do it because the bar doesn't project far from the front of the car. Most bars have the uprights extending out beyond the face of the main bar to help with the depth of the lights. Mine doesn't, so the lights will finish about flush with the face of the bar.

If they do take a hit (Lightforce XGTs) they should rotate back on their mounts until flush with the raked uprights. There's enough clearance between the back of the lights and the A/C radiator to let them do that. If they go any further than that then I just have to hope they destroy the A/C rad and don't munch up my engine radiator...

Plan will be not to hit much in the first place!