Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hi everyone

this is my first time on outer limits 4x4.

i unfortunely noticed yesterday that my rear main engine seal is leaking. i have a 98 hilux diesel.

i am looking at starting to do work on my car myself, as i am interested in it. i am no mechanic but im not afraid to look at something new and give it a go. i have a bit of cash saved up and want to buy a few tools (plus grab some of dads).

basically what i am leading too..... is changing this seal a massive job (taking out the transmission, fly wheel etc)? is this task a bit big for a beginner?

at this point in time i am keen to give it a go, but please help me make a decision.

cheers
shane

if you have the tools and manuals, why not. thats what i did and now the stuff i'v done is on the back of my head. just read over the manuals before doin the job so you have a good understanding of what has to be done, then decide if its a job you can do or is it better to pay someone.


hope that helps

Hi Shane,

Yep, take out the trans, and flywheel.
At least a day job if doing at home with minimal tools.

Get a gregories manual, at the very least.

Trains

Get a Gregory's manual and follow it to the letter and you shouldn't have any problems.

Make sure you use a Torque Wrench. Don't just guess. Also use locktight on the flywheel and clutch bolts.

The first time I did it it took me a whole day. Now I can do it in just over three hours on my own. The seal costs about 11 dollars from Don Kyatts (Terrain Tamer)

If you drive in a lot of mud get used to having to replace this seal and the front crankshaft seal (a lot bigger job) as well.

Main tools are:
Socket - 12mm, 14mm, 17mm, 19mm
Spanner - 12mm, 14mm, 17mm, 19mm
Ratchet
Breaker bar
Torque Wrench
Clutch alignment tool (I got a steel one made up the gregorys manual has the specs for it. Don't waist your money on the cheap plastic ones, get a metal one)
Vice Grips
Soft Faced mallet
Jack
Car ramps


Basics

Disconect battery

Unless you have a transmission jack or something similar (homemade cradle for your jack) you need to drop the oil out of your t/case and gearbox so when you split them the oil doesn't leak out.

Remove the front and rear tail shafts and exhaust.

Remove gearsticks

Remove starter motor and clutch cylinder (use cable ties to keep them uot of the way)

Split t/case and gearbox and remove both

Once the gearbox and tcase are out you have to remove the clutch and the flywheel. (you'll probably need a hand to do this)

CAREFULLY drill a small hole in the seal (about 1.5mm) and screw in a self tapper. Using vice grips pull the seal out (don't lever of the engine pull straight out)

Clean the area up and carefully put new seal in (soft head mallet gently tapping around the edges)

Put all the bits you took off back on in reverse order.

thanks kingston and trains for the motivation and thanks squeak for the detailed info (appreciated).

i have a 'Haynes' repair manual which seems to be pretty good. but is the Gregory's substantially better or is it the same thing just written by another company?


my mate and i changed the front crank shaft seal about a month ago because that was leaking.... but the bloody thing started to leak again after a few days is there any reason why it would start leaking again? he says it needs another seal around the shaft to create like a double seal (he did say what the seal was called but i have forgot).
doing the front crank shaft seal with him was a big job (even though i was just passing tools and learning everything i could by watching) but i will do it again by my self just to give it a go.

thanks for the comments

when i finish my exams this is the first thing im doing...

cheers shane

yeah he's probly talking about an Speedi Sleeve

i would say you didnt put the front seal in straight or you accidently lost the spring from the inside off the seal or gouged the metal quiet bad getting the old seal out.

how many kms has the engine done and how bad is it leaking?

if leaking bad its strange to blow both front and rear seals at the same time. i would be checking crank shaft end float (put a tyre lever between the harmonic balancer and the front cover and looking for movement)
and also checking for excessive crankcase pressure (run the engine and take the oil cap off and "feel" how much air comes out)
if its crankcase pressure it could be as simple as a blocked breather all the way upto flogged out piston rings, head gaskets and all your other sleep depriving problems.

i have never needed to use a speedy sleeve.

with the rear main take your time pulling it apart. use 4 or 5 different ice cream containers to keep your bolts seperate and easy to re assemble (1 for tailshaft bolts, another for cross member bolts etc etc)
invite some "strong" friends around on the days you remove and replace the box, they are very heavy and dont balence well on a trolly jack.
dont lie underneath the box when removing.
dont touch the clutch plate with dirty fingers and clean up the flywheel and pressure plate with sand paper, it the clutch material has worn so its close to the rivots (approx.5 mm) you might aswell throw a new clutch at it whilst you are there. on re-instalation make sure you have the clutch hat faces the gearbox ALIGN THE CLUTCH!!! if you dont you will have a crunt of a time getting the gearbox back in and possibly bend the clutch plate.
locktight on flywheel bolts
make sure the seal is in strait. where possible i normally push them in an extra bee's dick so the seal lip sits on fresh metal. rear mains are normally pretty tight to get in so find something to sit over the seal and hit it with a hammer to knock it in. pvc pipe with a block of wood works if you have a friend to hold it or are tasmanian and have an extra hand, use a lil greese on the seal.

take your time check the little things first. i would replace the front seal again before taking on the rear main. just to make sure that it isnt blowings seals out
good luck

thanks for the reply Jacked...

"how many kms has the engine done and how bad is it leaking? "

its done just under 170 000km (but im starting to think that the past owner has put the clock back as i bought the car about 6 months ago)

the rear leak is not too bad its like a drop per night (its more something i want to fix) the front crank leak is a little worse.

i was thinking that its a little odd that both the front and back seals are leaking at the same time.

the ute does not blow any smoke so hopefully thats 1 indication that the rings pistons etc are ok.

i will check tomorrow if any air is coming out of the oil cap. with the crank shaft end float i didnt quite understand what you mean sorry. i know what the harmonic balancer is but wasnt sure what to look for after that. (soz)

cheers

yeh he was actually talking about a speedi sleeve..... cheers kingston

Jacked

Front and rears on hilux diesels are easy to damage if the engine see's a lot of mud.


Afroshane

Not sure on the Haines Manual Vs the Gregory's

When you have the seal out check the area were it was sealling against to see if there is any damage to the crankshaft surface.

I agree with Jacked on the front seal not being in properly or lost the internal spring. When you do the front seal you may as well put in a new timing belt as they don't like it when they get covered in oil and it would be due in 30 thousand clicks anyway. Do the water pump while your in there and then keep the old one as a spare. Plus if you don't have faith in the speedo readout then it's probably a good idea. (The water pumps usually only last about 20 thousand past the timiing belt change out period)

PVC pipe or fitting is good to use to give an even push on the seal as you install it. Like Jacked said try to get it to seal against a new area by pushing the seal in a couple of mm extra.

afro its not leaking to bad by the sounds of it. 170,000 out of a rear main seal is pretty good.

the crank endfloat should be fine at 170,000kms. basically by prying the balancer back and forwards against the engine you can see if there is any movement in the crank.

thanks for the reply's

jacked -
i just opened the oil cap when the car was running and there was a fair bit of air coming out (engine was cold if that makes any difference)... the engine doesnt blow any smoke or have any signs of something being wrong with the engine. but if this is not normal it could be a air hose.... what heading do you think this will be under in my repair manual so i can sus it out?

i couldnt work out how to move the harmonic balancer back and forth as the timing belt cover is plastic and it will break if i lever off it to see if there is any movement. but everything i did try to do it didnt want to move.

squeak - cheers, changing the water pump is a good idea. will do when i do the front seal.

thanks

if it didnt move it will be fine. its not a common thing to go wrong but it is a cause of seal failure and very easy to check.
a bit of air coming out is ok its when it blows a gail with traces of smoke you have problems.

sounds like you just need to throw some seals at it. i personally dont care if a rear main leaks only 1 drop a night though i would wait untill its due for a clutch. have another go at your front seal/ water pump and timing belt.

cheers thanks heaps

appreciate your help