Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i've read and read and read. i still can't get my head around how to design a wrap bar that won't introduce too much wheel hop.

i'm looking at doing a 2 seperate bar, heim jointed style like on the back of guts' hilux

any experts out there want to throw some suggestions around? and if you do say "aim for 75% anti squat", please tell me how to work the fawker out... i have only seen it worked out for 4 links etc.

At diff housing have about 8-10" seperation with lower bush about a 1/4 of total seperation below axle height. Lower mount is forward of upper mount by about 1.5-2".
At chassis end do a shackle style mount (4" seperation) with the upper pin attached to crossmember & lower attached to johnny joint style bush & trackbar frame. Have your lower bush about 10 deg forward of your chassis crossmember mount pivot point at ride height.
This is how I set mine up with trackbar being roughly 900-1000mm in length & if possible follow the same angle as the driveshaft & below to aid in protecting the driveshaft.






brooksy

or go for a caltracs/oztraks style setup (see my build thread in link below). Hasnt affected ground clearance for me and has stopped all wrap and tramp.

alien wrote:or go for a caltracs/oztraks style setup (see my build thread in link below). Hasnt affected ground clearance for me and has stopped all wrap and tramp.

not a fan of caltracs. the bottom link would be a rock finder in the terrain i drive (my spring plates are too low already), plus my understanding of it is they rely on the leaf itself to finalise the triangulation.

Brooksy, are you talking about a ladder bar, or having both seperate links terminate at the same point on the shackle?

I bookmarked this a long time ago for interest.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

RAY185 wrote:I bookmarked this a long time ago for interest.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

i've seen that one, interesting concept, but my tub height will be too low for that i recon... ATM my axle has full travel to chassis (no bumpstops)

bad_religion_au wrote:

RAY185 wrote:I bookmarked this a long time ago for interest.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

i've seen that one, interesting concept, but my tub height will be too low for that i recon... ATM my axle has full travel to chassis (no bumpstops)

That in itself is not a good start.
Bumpstops are essentail at 1. Stoping the diff housing contacting the frame at a great rate of knots, 2. Forcing articulation.

Have you looked at the torque fork design ?

http://4wheelonline.com/jeep/Categories ... ryId=25810

Supposed to work very very well (13, 14, 15 bit)

love_mud wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

RAY185 wrote:I bookmarked this a long time ago for interest.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

i've seen that one, interesting concept, but my tub height will be too low for that i recon... ATM my axle has full travel to chassis (no bumpstops)

That in itself is not a good start.
Bumpstops are essentail at 1. Stoping the diff housing contacting the frame at a great rate of knots, 2. Forcing articulation.

Have you looked at the torque fork design ?

http://4wheelonline.com/jeep/Categories ... ryId=25810

Supposed to work very very well (13, 14, 15 bit)

trust me, the housing won't be hitting the frame at a great rate of knots unless it's dropped off a 20 story building... but i think i'd have more to worry about . even with the low profile bumpstops in there, there will be nowhere near enough room between the tub and the housing to run one of those things (no B/L, gastank recessed under the floor, almost standard height springs).

the torque fork is no different to a regular ladder bar setup, complete with their pro's and cons.

bad_religion_au wrote:
Brooksy, are you talking about a ladder bar, or having both seperate links terminate at the same point on the shackle?

Yes mate, a ladder bar that has 2 points at diff housing & comes together at a single point on the lower pin point of the shackle. This design has brought excellent ledge climbing ability & zero wheel hop.



brooksy

bad_religion_au wrote:

love_mud wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

RAY185 wrote:I bookmarked this a long time ago for interest.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

i've seen that one, interesting concept, but my tub height will be too low for that i recon... ATM my axle has full travel to chassis (no bumpstops)

That in itself is not a good start.
Bumpstops are essentail at 1. Stoping the diff housing contacting the frame at a great rate of knots, 2. Forcing articulation.

Have you looked at the torque fork design ?

http://4wheelonline.com/jeep/Categories ... ryId=25810

Supposed to work very very well (13, 14, 15 bit)

trust me, the housing won't be hitting the frame at a great rate of knots unless it's dropped off a 20 story building... but i think i'd have more to worry about . even with the low profile bumpstops in there, there will be nowhere near enough room between the tub and the housing to run one of those things (no B/L, gastank recessed under the floor, almost standard height springs).

the torque fork is no different to a regular ladder bar setup, complete with their pro's and cons.

A torque fork is subtley but importantly very very different to a regular ladder bar. You obviously are looking for someone to validate your idea .. so why not say that instead of rubbishing any ideas that are put before you.
It does not bind the leaves anywhere near as much as a regular ladder bar .. but I cant see why you would need one if your leaves are anywhere near as stiff as you say they are

love_mud wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

love_mud wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

RAY185 wrote:I bookmarked this a long time ago for interest.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

i've seen that one, interesting concept, but my tub height will be too low for that i recon... ATM my axle has full travel to chassis (no bumpstops)

That in itself is not a good start.
Bumpstops are essentail at 1. Stoping the diff housing contacting the frame at a great rate of knots, 2. Forcing articulation.

Have you looked at the torque fork design ?

http://4wheelonline.com/jeep/Categories ... ryId=25810

Supposed to work very very well (13, 14, 15 bit)

trust me, the housing won't be hitting the frame at a great rate of knots unless it's dropped off a 20 story building... but i think i'd have more to worry about . even with the low profile bumpstops in there, there will be nowhere near enough room between the tub and the housing to run one of those things (no B/L, gastank recessed under the floor, almost standard height springs).

the torque fork is no different to a regular ladder bar setup, complete with their pro's and cons.

A torque fork is subtley but importantly very very different to a regular ladder bar. You obviously are looking for someone to validate your idea .. so why not say that instead of rubbishing any ideas that are put before you.
It does not bind the leaves anywhere near as much as a regular ladder bar .. but I cant see why you would need one if your leaves are anywhere near as stiff as you say they are

instead of getting all defensive over a product on the internet, explain to me how their "different".

2 points diff end, 1 point on a crossmember. check.

methods (shackles, slip joints, Heims, whatever) to allow the flex movement. check.

i was asking how to calculate the antisquat, not for ideas on what bar to go with. if i got the "torque fork", i would still need to know the best length/angles to mount it on.

i don't "need" validation of "my idea", it works flawlessly on heaps of rigs. i'm just trying to find out how to optimise it to fit my setup.


but considering you have such a profound understanding of my setup, considering you assume (wrongly) that i'm smashing the housing on the chassis, why don't you tell me what lengths to make it?

Come on kids, 6 weeks till xmas, where is the love?
Peter.

RAY185 wrote:I bookmarked this a long time ago for interest.

http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/

also on further research, that's a variation on a single bar design. which means your leafs are being used to complete the triangle. not good if you have soft leafs!