Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I've got long-fields in my 40, maybe 3 years old(Trailer queen). I've noticed recently the Rh one is starting to "click" on full lock. Pulled it out,washed it up but can't find any damage. Others have said long-fields get noisy, is this true?

Look at the inner star & cage for cracks real close under a bright light. Sometimes they are very hard to see. The only time I've had noisy Longs were from broken cv's.

Jason

time for a new set under warranty ?

clicking CV's are usually from the balls running over Grooves worn into the CV bell.

longs being softer, they wear quicker. so it could be that simple?

bad_religion_au wrote: longs being softer, they wear quicker

softer which increases their toughness. Takes more energy to break them than the factory ones which are harder, longer wearin but more brittle.

mmmmm

righto....

Yeh, Mine are really stiff and notchy when they are out. Still seem to be fine. I give them a pretty good workout ( When I uses the truck)

my old man has a set of longs in his 6.5L landcruiser been in there 10yrs or so and there clicking reall bad but he thinks that he cant get a new set under warranty as the old owner of the rig never got the axels just the CVs

Z()LTAN wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote: longs being softer, they wear quicker

what don't you get?

longfields are either made from a softer material (chromolly), or are heat treated to make them softer and more ductile... hard CV's are more brittle, shatter easier, and end up weaker overall.

softer metals wear quicker...

or are you claiming i'm wrong on this one as well?

Here is some BASIC stuff, click on various parts of the picture in the first link to see where various metals are placed.

http://www-materials.eng.cam.ac.uk/mpsi ... Chart.html

http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResource ... Curves.jpg

hmrm

Its my understanding that 4340 (what longs are made from) is a high Carbon low alloy steel. They use 4340 because it can be heat treated very well making it stronger and tougher.

So going by this graph


Its at the top end of the range (top left) making it less ductile and harder.

I think u have your facts ass about mate.

I think it is all in heating and cooling process that Bobby uses that makes them so strong. Cal offroad makes them for nissans and they break all the time.

So I think that Bobby has a secret that works a treat!

Did you read any of the material that came with your longs zoltan? Iirc they're far more flexible than a STD cv/axle, hence tougher yet softer. I believe the material even states that the cv's are softer and not suitable for extensive highway use. They don't get all that extra strength by simply using smaller balls...

Toyota didn't just go cheap on the material used in STD cv's - they chose a material they offered a compromise between strength and long life - totally adequate for a standard vehical.

From my understanding it all in the cooling process!

Mine started clicking after about 12 months.... and have been told that long fields will wear quicker than a nornal CV.

The other thing to consider is when you load a Cv, are you stressing it or straining it???

stress is a singular event

strain is a prolonged use wear

Z()LTAN wrote:stress is a singular event

strain is a prolonged use wear

nup

Stress - The internal resistance a material offers to being deformed

Strain - geometrical measure of deformation representing the relative displacement between particles in a material body

Z()LTAN wrote:Stress - The internal resistance a material offers to being deformed

Strain - geometrical measure of deformation representing the relative displacement between particles in a material body

that's right, strain has nothing to do with wear, it relates to deformation. Repeated deformation of a material could lead to fatigue, but not wear.

ah fair enough, i was just lead to believe that repeated deformation is wear.

wear is the break down/deformation of a surface structure.

Deformation isn't nessecarily a bad thing - as in the case of longfields it is a good thing! It doesn't nessecarily lead to fatigue (depending on magnitude of strain and material in question) or any sort of failure. Generally, though, materials which are able to handle high strain (I.e. Tough materials) will be relatively soft and susceptible to wear at a higher rate. A materials toughness not only relates to it's composition, but also treatment (heat/chemical etc). Materials science is a complex but very interesting topic and well worth studying - even if just to understand the teh nical meaning of and differences between commonly used and misunderstood words like tough, hard, stress, strain, fatigue etc, and also the means for testing such factors.

I've been studying this shit for years and still trip up all the time so it'd be best to take my opinion with a grain of salt

i wouldn't believe a word that dogbreath man says!

djroberts wrote:i wouldn't believe a word that dogbreath man says!

Alright smartarse, correct me

All these words confused the hell out of me in second year metallurgy. They should of picked completely new words other than ones already in common use in the english language that all say basically the same thing.

Here is my run-down on the "textbook" definitions of these words in regards to material science.

Strain - proportional change in size/shape (usually low like 0.01% or so, eg 0.1mm change in length of a 1m bar)

Deformation - the change in size and/shape that won't elastically return once the force is removed. The difference between flexing and bending.

Yielding - occurs at the stress at which previously mentioned deformation occurs.

Stress - Force per area...same as pressure in reality

Hardness - can be thought of how much a material resists a sharp point load and surface deformation. It is actually measured using a penetratoromoter type thing. A pointed weight and the penetration depth is measured. Good for bearings and other sliding/wearing surfaces. Usually achieved from heating and quenching and only desirable on the surface of a material as it makes the material brittle.

Brittle - Fractures from strain, that is the material can't change shape under load without failing. Glass is the typical example.

Strength - The amount of stress the piece can take before fracturing (or yeilding), close to toughness but the distiction is a hard brittle material is strong and can take alot of force but very little strain before fracturing and not be tough (landcruiser cvs). Where as a less hard material can take more strain (shape changing) and not break (longfields cvs). Materials that can elastically absorb energy under strain are tougher than those that can't.

Toughness - The measure of how much load and energy the thing will take before it ultimately fractures. (strong doesn't necissarily mean tough) They test this by smashing a specimen with a big swinging hammer and measuring how much it reduces the hammers swing.

Fatigue - Process of fracture from repitive loading below the yield strength. This is sort of what happens to a coathanger that gets bent over and over. And why old planes get decomissioned and why a driveshaft can rip apart cruising at a constant speed on the highway without large yielding forces being put through it. Little microcracks get bigger and bigger by tiny amounts over lots of repetitive loading (millions of cycles) until the crack reaches the so called "critical crack length" at which fast fracture occurs and the thing rips to pieces. This is hard to predict and a big pain in the arse, especially with aluminium.

The language used is a shame because these material words have meanings have little to do with their normal meaning and the distinctions between them was already subtle and confusing enough.

Wikipedia is pretty good on all this stuff if you can be bothered to read it.

Back to the clicking CV's,
Take them out & check them for stress cracks then if all OK repack with good grease and go bush .
I take mine out every year to check & repack with grease.

hate to say told you so

they are designed to be ductile, not hard and brittle.

Willy, the caloffroad stuff doesn't break because they don't have a secret heat treating/cooling process. it breaks because nissan stuff is crap. they neck down smaller than even early toyota CV's to go through the spindle, meaning that no matter WHAT you do, unless you change out that spindle, you'll never get a nissan steer axle as tough as a toyota one.

Thanks for the most technical replies. I've checked my longs and can find no cracks etc or signs of advanced wear but one is clicking. Should I wait till it fails then contact Mr Long? What does everyone else do?


ps It is still stiff to rotate like it was when new.

the gun wrote:Thanks for the most technical replies. I've checked my longs and can find no cracks etc or signs of advanced wear but one is clicking. Should I wait till it fails then contact Mr Long? What does everyone else do?


ps It is still stiff to rotate like it was when new.

Run it till it breaks. I would be surprised if you dont get years more use out of them once they start clicking. But it wouldnt hurt to shoot Bobby or Terra an email and let them know now. They may tell you to send it back when you can for a replacement.

Ive broken a couple of longfields and i still wouldnt hesitate to buy them again when needed. There is no better option available for the Toyota front end.

i have a set in my hilux, had them for years, always done it. never had a problem with them, cleaned and greased frequently can't see any change in them.