Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Pasted from another forum, so I dont have to retypeI will try and make a long story short.

I recently rebuilt 1hd-t and turbo. It has been running great (500km since firing it up) apart from a little flat spot in the power curve.

Last night I was driving at ~100km/hr when the engine accelerated dramatically by itself. I lifted off the throttle and put the clutch in as I was being accelerated toward the car in front Shocked
As soon as I put in the clutch, the engine free revved well over Redline. My first thought was a turbo oil seal had blown, or I had broken some rings and the engine was running on engine oil. I was in 5th gear so let out the clutch and jammed the brakes on as hard as I could and pulled off the road and stalled the engine (took some doing, clutch got baked Shocked )
Didnt think to turn off the key Embarassed too much panic, it sounded like I would be seeing pistons coming throught the bonnet any second Shocked

I spent time this morning looking at what had gone wrong.

After eliminating some possible causes I decided to fire the engine up. It turned over OK by hand, and cranked Ok, but took a while to fire. When it fired up, it ran very rough, barely idling, foot on the throttle didnt change the engine speed.
With a bit of fiddling, I ended up using the hand prime pump to pre prime the IP, after doing this it fired up easier, and ran a bit longer, still ran extremely rough, I tried to increase the revs by moving the throttle arm on the pump by hand, I also tried to increase the idle rpm, but the engine just wouldnt rev, I also had to keep pumping the hand priming pump to keep it running.

So my initial thought was that it had run on on engine oil, but this idea seems to have nothing to back it up
The fact that the IP needs to be preprimed and constantly primed by the hand pump to run at all, and the fact that turning the throttle doesnt change engine speed has me thinking that the IP pump has crapped its dacks. Unfortunately I didnt think to turn off the key which would have cut fuel to the IP and told me if it was a fuel problem or an oil problem.

I want to do a compression test just to eliminate busted rings as a cause.

Does it sound plausable that the IP could have caused this to happen? or should I be looking at other possible problems?

bump

any comments/suggestions?

80's_delirious wrote:bump

any comments/suggestions?

http://www.lcool.org/forum/index.php

could the governor have jammed in a full fuel position?

Now the governor linkage is broken so the throttle arm wont move it?

Your hard starting no revving up sounds like it might be getting air in the system. Fit a clear hose to both sides of the injector pump and confirm this.
What might have happened is this: you fitted the engine back together with front timing cover done up, then fitted the pump. If so this has misaligned the drive shaft and worn the bushes in the front of the pump and worn the drive shaft seal, now letting it suck air in. It may have done some other damage. The front timing cover only has one dowell at the drivers side. It really should be assembled with the pump in, the front gear on the pump, then the timing cover put on.

The over rev may have been the control sleeve in the pump sticking, why?, hard to say without seeing the pump.

Hope this helps.

Andy

thanks Andy.

I fitted the pump after the timing cover, the gears meshed nicely, no binding etc. Would a seal wear that significantly after 500km?

mike_nofx wrote:

80's_delirious wrote:bump

any comments/suggestions?

http://www.lcool.org/forum/index.php

cheers, I posted the same question there already and pasted it to here

Yes it would. It will not bind, but load the driveshaft up to one side. This then wears on one side of the seal.

Put a clear line on and see. You have done a lot of revs in 500km.



Andy

Ok fair point, thinking about it, the pump is original too, so the seal may not have been great to start with. Will try the clear line when I have a chance to look at it.

This is exactly what happened to me 80's_delirious except i had my breather pipe out to atmosphere so it covered the underneath of my car with oil instead of running on, the seal completely popped out of where it sits on the shaft of the injector pump spitting diesel into the front timing gears filling up the sump which is why I'm guessing yours ran on.

Before i found out exactly what had happened i tried everything all new hoses, new primer pump and then fitted an electric lift pump as the ip bloke thought the pump couldn't suck its own diesel for some reason. Anyway after all that it spat oil out through the breather and took the pump off.

Went to the bloke with the my ip and he hit me up how I assembled the timing covers and I found out that you MUST put the pump and its gear on after the first timing cover goes on not after they have all been assembled. I had to replace the shaft in the pump as it was flogged because of how i assembled it and then disassembled the timing covers and put the pump on beofore the other two covers. I was surprised by this and wished i was told before i built the motor, but my fault for not reading the manual better.

Anyway pull the injector pump off and odds will be the front pump seal is busted or completely popped out like mine did. Once i redid mine and took the timing gears off it has been all sweet.

I know of another bloke this happened to he had the 1hdt and was sitting on 100 and bam she took off. he had done the exact same thing assemble all timing covers and gears first then put the injector pump on so it happens a fair bit by the sounds of it.

Also wen i was testing mine i simply pulled the return line off. To start mine i had to pump it up with the hand primer to start it then it would run worse and worse and eventually dieing no matter how much throttle i gave it..With the return line off i could see the fuel coming out go from clear to alot of air in it.

Id probably go a pump rebuild if you have done everything else, then do the timing gear trick and it should be alright if it did run on for too long and do damage.

horndog wrote:Also wen i was testing mine i simply pulled the return line off. To start mine i had to pump it up with the hand primer to start it then it would run worse and worse and eventually dieing no matter how much throttle i gave it..With the return line off i could see the fuel coming out go from clear to alot of air in it.

Id probably go a pump rebuild if you have done everything else, then do the timing gear trick and it should be alright if it did run on for too long and do damage.

Does this also go for pulling a pump off and back on, or is it only when you pull the engine apart?
Edit. sorry did quote off the wrong post. I meant this question for putting the pump on and causing seal/ shaft damage.

The front timing cover is properly aligned from factory. If someone removes the outer aluminium timing cover and doesn't follow the correct fitting procedure then it will happen. We have now offered a dummy pump to a few engine reconditioners to stop this happening.



Andy

midi73 wrote:

horndog wrote:Also wen i was testing mine i simply pulled the return line off. To start mine i had to pump it up with the hand primer to start it then it would run worse and worse and eventually dieing no matter how much throttle i gave it..With the return line off i could see the fuel coming out go from clear to alot of air in it.

Id probably go a pump rebuild if you have done everything else, then do the timing gear trick and it should be alright if it did run on for too long and do damage.

Does this also go for pulling a pump off and back on, or is it only when you pull the engine apart?
Edit. sorry did quote off the wrong post. I meant this question for putting the pump on and causing seal/ shaft damage.

From what i have heard its just wen you take the timing cover plate off, like what Dzltec said if you are rebuilding it then you have to do it but if it was working before the pump came off you will be right.

horndog wrote:

midi73 wrote:

horndog wrote:Also wen i was testing mine i simply pulled the return line off. To start mine i had to pump it up with the hand primer to start it then it would run worse and worse and eventually dieing no matter how much throttle i gave it..With the return line off i could see the fuel coming out go from clear to alot of air in it.

Id probably go a pump rebuild if you have done everything else, then do the timing gear trick and it should be alright if it did run on for too long and do damage.

Does this also go for pulling a pump off and back on, or is it only when you pull the engine apart?
Edit. sorry did quote off the wrong post. I meant this question for putting the pump on and causing seal/ shaft damage.

From what i have heard its just wen you take the timing cover plate off, like what Dzltec said if you are rebuilding it then you have to do it but if it was working before the pump came off you will be right.

Ok no worries thanks for that. I am having pump trouble and it may need to come off, so was just making sure.

Good thread, you learn something new everyday! That would be fawkin scary when she takes off out of control on you!

Hoping to sort this in the next day or so. Apart from bolting up the pump first, any other tips on getting the timing cover properly alligned?



CHunks, yeah it was scary, not much time to think of options.

80's_delirious wrote:Hoping to sort this in the next day or so. Apart from bolting up the pump first, any other tips on getting the timing cover properly alligned?



CHunks, yeah it was scary, not much time to think of options.

Have all bolts started before you tighten any.
You also need the tool to set the pump stroke.Marking the pump and housing is not close enough. With all the work you've done don't take short cuts for the final set up.