Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I was just on one of my Fabrication Forums, and the subject got going about cleaning down materials before welding.
I remembered this story and posted it, and thought it was worthwhile reminding everyone else about the dangers that lurk around our sheds.

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Gee, he was lucky.. seizures and all

Everyone should click on the link and read the whole thing.

Compulsory reading too ALL here.

Stay safe everyone. no point building it if it kills ya and you dont get to enjoy it.

yer ive read that before, crazy shit !!, ive onced welded where zinc paint was, thought id cleaned most of it off but the heat burned it and as i inhaled it ,it burnt the shit out of my nostrils and got an almost imediate headache, was unreal.

that is seriously scary wont be using that stuff ever

pretty scary you don't really think about that sort of stuff at all hey

Phosgene was the gas used in World War I and accounted for many deaths during and after the war.

My Mum's dad died in 1923, from the effects of being gassed in 1917and my Dad's 's dad lasted until 1929 before he died from the gassing.

Both served in the same battalion.

Very old fire extinguishers (pre 1970) used a gas that decomposed into phosgene.

I use brake cleaner everyday, I'm sure my job is pretty hazardous to my health...

Phosgene can also be produced by smoking around freon (refrigerant) gas I think.

Barnsey wrote:

chunks wrote:I use brake cleaner everyday, I'm sure my job is pretty hazardous to my health...

Is there a MSDS sheet for the brake cleaner?

If not, get one and READ it.

There's plenty of MSDS web sites too. If you're not sure about what you're using, do 5 minutes of research on the net.

MSDS sheets are pretty comprehensive about precautions, PPE, first aid, etc.

Yeh there is. It says the usual things like avoid inhaling vapours, skin contact etc.

That's a shocker of an outcome. Poor bugger took precautions and thought all was safe, yet still near curled up.

I agree, compulsory reading material fellas.

Brisbanite wrote:Phosgene can also be produced by smoking around freon (refrigerant) gas I think.

I was talking about this a while back with halon based fire suppression systems (Frequently used in the IT world) and a story about a bloke having a smoke to settle his nerves after being caught in a the gas during a small fire in a data centre .. he was rather dead afterward.

love_mud wrote:

Brisbanite wrote:Phosgene can also be produced by smoking around freon (refrigerant) gas I think.

I was talking about this a while back with halon based fire suppression systems (Frequently used in the IT world) and a story about a bloke having a smoke to settle his nerves after being caught in a the gas during a small fire in a data centre .. he was rather dead afterward.

I can't help wondering why a cigarette would cause phosgene gas if the original fire didn't. I am just wondering, not saying it didn't happen.

chimpboy wrote:

love_mud wrote:

Brisbanite wrote:Phosgene can also be produced by smoking around freon (refrigerant) gas I think.

I was talking about this a while back with halon based fire suppression systems (Frequently used in the IT world) and a story about a bloke having a smoke to settle his nerves after being caught in a the gas during a small fire in a data centre .. he was rather dead afterward.

I can't help wondering why a cigarette would cause phosgene gas if the original fire didn't. I am just wondering, not saying it didn't happen.

Chemical reaction.

I don't at all want to seem like a crunt but my mind baffles at the thought of using brake cleaner prior to welding, or any dangerous chemical Everyone knows if you swallow the dodgy chemicals its bad for you so when you vaporise them with heat don't people think it may be bad to breath in the vapor as well??

Definitely worth the read but is it a common practice to use any old part cleaner before applying extreme heat for welding or cutting purposes??

stuee wrote:I don't at all want to seem like a crunt but my mind baffles at the thought of using brake cleaner prior to welding, or any dangerous chemical Everyone knows if you swallow the dodgy chemicals its bad for you so when you vaporise them with heat don't people think it may be bad to breath in the vapor as well??

Definitely worth the read but is it a common practice to use any old part cleaner before applying extreme heat for welding or cutting purposes??

Probably more common than you think......
It has been widely practiced for years to clean materials to be welded, particularly TIG welded with solvents to try and minimise contamination of the Weld pool.....
They are used because of just this reason...... they evaporate fast usually ahead of the area you are welding, and do a great job in cleaning contaminates .
Most times the result is low risk, but in some cases like this, the result can be deadly.

I think it's about time i updated to a newer fire extinguisher as the one in the shed was made in England in 1963 and has Carbon Tetrachloride in it

this begs the question, what is the safest best way to prep steel before welding, especially if its say been old rusty and oily.

Serg

Pressure clean then a grinder or one of the cleaning type disks or wheels is the safest way........ or maybe even sand blasting for steel.
Aluminium is more difficult......Pessure clean , hot soapy water , or pure alcohol and a stainless steel wire brush......thats how I do it

I use brake clean constantly at work, including before welding to clean surfaces. Saw that story a while ago, our Bendix brake clean doesnt contain that chemical, so its arite. Hell i get it in me eyes sometimes, never been a problem.

PJ.zook wrote:I use brake clean constantly at work, including before welding to clean surfaces. Saw that story a while ago, our Bendix brake clean doesnt contain that chemical, so its arite. Hell i get it in me eyes sometimes, never been a problem.

Which brings it back to the point of reading the data and know the products you are using.

we found two cans of Phostoxin lurking in our chem shed at work the other day- Its a gassing agent for rabbits, throw a lump down the hole, it decomposes into phosphine and kills them.

You wouldnt believe how hard it is to find someone who will handle that stuff for disposal!

I reckon this should be a sticky at the top

Harb wrote:Pressure clean then a grinder or one of the cleaning type disks or wheels is the safest way........ or maybe even sand blasting for steel.
Aluminium is more difficult......Pessure clean , hot soapy water , or pure alcohol and a stainless steel wire brush......thats how I do it

for most application generaly you wont need to clean it with cleaners unless you have got oil on it ect aluminium will probably clean it no matter what.

i usualy dont use cleaners but if i do i use some metho.
remeber to clean the filler wire too you will be amazed how much black shit come off it strigh from the box

Look'n 4 Mud wrote:I reckon this should be a sticky at the top

i reackon there should be a safety thread so people can post share their safety stories with the rest of us.

and people whinge about OH&S dept and safety advisers etc.....this is why we have them

Maybe going to the hospital instead of checking details on the internet and waiting for seizures would have been an idea to.

Tiny wrote:and people whinge about OH&S dept and safety advisers etc.....this is why we have them

.... you'd wingh about someone sharing his/her near miss or his/ her accident???
your messed up if you complaned about a safety share instead take it in and learn from there experence....

your thinking about the other thread where people are complaning about OH&S going over the top....

Kingston_99 wrote:

Tiny wrote:and people whinge about OH&S dept and safety advisers etc.....this is why we have them

.... you'd wingh about someone sharing his/her near miss or his/ her accident???
your messed up if you complaned about a safety share instead take it in and learn from there experence....

your thinking about the other thread where people are complaning about OH&S going over the top....

I think u will find he was saying that dangers like this is why we have safety officers, not saying not to have a safety thread.

Tiny wrote:and people whinge about OH&S dept and safety advisers etc.....this is why we have them

Yep... we make life to hard, till we miss one...

Mind you, the proposal is to ditch WHSO's when the new harmonisation laws come into effect... go figure

Spock