Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ok, this one has me scratching...

Engine has compression within spec, plugs/coil/distributer all have power/spark how their supposed to. engine is static timed, and it won't kick at all on petrol, gas, or starter fluid...

won't kick over or won't actually start?

bad_religion_au wrote:Engine has compression within spec, plugs/coil/distributer all have power/spark how their supposed to. engine is static timed, and it won't kick at all on petrol, gas, or starter fluid...

By "kick", you mean the engine doesn't "catch" at all while you're cranking it?

My guess is that one of your statements above is erroneous, are you 100% sure on spark and timing? Otherwise you would expect at least some starter fluid in the air intake to cause at least some signs of life.

What motor and what has changed since it was last running..... you really need to give more info about this motor/paperweight......

chimpboy wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:Engine has compression within spec, plugs/coil/distributer all have power/spark how their supposed to. engine is static timed, and it won't kick at all on petrol, gas, or starter fluid...

By "kick", you mean the engine doesn't "catch" at all while you're cranking it?

My guess is that one of your statements above is erroneous, are you 100% sure on spark and timing? Otherwise you would expect at least some starter fluid in the air intake to cause at least some signs of life.

100% on spark, rechecked timing about 20 times. got a mechanic mate to double recheck it. no catch at all.

RED60 wrote:What motor and what has changed since it was last running..... you really need to give more info about this motor/paperweight......

2f,

just got finished swapping it into another car.

Cranking fast or slow

beinthemud wrote:Cranking fast or slow

starts off cranking as fast as normal, but slows down pretty quick.

have upgraded the battery - starter, and the battery - earths as well.

Were did the engine come from
Its got
fuel ,sprk
eather timings out 180deg
or youll do a compression test and at least one cyclinder will be down

beinthemud wrote:Were did the engine come from
Its got
fuel ,sprk
eather timings out 180deg
or youll do a compression test and at least one cyclinder will be down

out of a parts rig that drove really well but was rusted out.

#1 fires when both valves are closed, so on the compression stroke, not the exhaust stroke, so i don't see the rest being out 180.

driving me nuts, the one that came out had effectively no compression on #6 and still started first time every time

Forget compression for now imho. Have you checked the firing order?

Could it just be flooded from all the stuffing around? Do you get nice blue sparks or weak yellow ones? How bad is your voltage getting while cranking?

I know these are silly questions but it sort of seems you might have missed something simple (as we all do).

chimpboy wrote:Forget compression for now imho. Have you checked the firing order?

Could it just be flooded from all the stuffing around? Do you get nice blue sparks or weak yellow ones? How bad is your voltage getting while cranking?

I know these are silly questions but it sort of seems you might have missed something simple (as we all do).

i've been trying to get this thing started for two weeks, so flooding isn't the issue

i agree, it'll be something simple, it's a matter of thinking of it.

the spark was yellow first time. i cleaned up the coil wiring and now have a nice blue spark, and it bloody hurts when it fires

will measure voltage next time i go out there, although i have tried it with jumper leads off another car most the time, or with a jump start pack...

Old fuel? Blocked air intake? Did you put a rag in it to stop shit getting in there when you swapped it over?

If you have fuel, spark, compression and oxygen it MUST run. (even if its for a second or 2)
Does the motor have a good earth to the chassis?
Are you sure that fuel and spark is getting into the combustion chamber?
Are you getting any firing in any cylinder? even one bang?
Is the exhaust fitted/clogged?

Lots of good suggestions so far by the outers crew,
We'll get to the bottom of it dont worry.

Are we talking conventional points system, or something more sophisticated?

When you see the fat blue spark are you earthing the plug to the engine or the body/chassis?

Have you put a timing light on the spark plug lead to confirm it's firing while you're cranking?

i had the exact same problem on a laser. It ended but being the coil, turns out he spark wasn't strong enough even though it looked good.

Just a thought I had A prob with the metal cover plate above the points shorting out on the wire that goes to the bolt through connector through the side of the distributor had to bend the terminal over to clear the plate . Gave the no spark situation , when checking the spark you should be using the spark plug as the earth as a weak spark won't work under compression .
The engine only needs spark , fuel & compression to fire even with timing problems you will get a splutter or backfire . so you are missing one of these.

have you had the leads off. If you have check which way the rotor spins while cranking. Not sure wich way 2 f's go but I had a old falcon and the rotor span anti clockwise. I put the leads back on that once firing clockwise and had the same problem. After finding the problem I put them on anti clockwise and away she went.

is it turning over the correct way?

Is your bezel on upside down?

Do you have your leads plugged in the right way? I know its a silly question but if you have fuel spark and you think the timing is right it should fire. At least give you a cough on a cyl or two...

v840 wrote:Is your bezel on upside down?

no, it's the new bezel, so it doesn't go on the "wrong" way.

spark tested against the engine.

engine - chassis earth is a nice big fat 4 gauge cable. short run. same as all the earths.

exhaust is clear, can feel "air" pumping out it when cranking on the starter. can also feel suction at the carb.

fuel is new, gas is about 6 months old, aerostart is brand new.

going to stuff around with the dizzy and get an answer to the "firing under compression" question.

How have you timed it?

Sounds very retarded if "Firing under compression" means it's firing early in the compression stroke.

Is the harmonic balancer on the correct rotation, if that's what you are using for timing ?

Does it fire at all either slightly through exhaust or backfire?

Cheers

Zeyphly wrote:is it turning over the correct way?

Yeah its a wild thought but after all this diagnosis, have you checked that somehow your starter is cranking the engine the correct way?

Im not even sure if a starter can crank the wrong way but hey

dont use the gas (lpg) until you get it started as it will easly flood although its doesnt smell flooded like petrol

Yes ive had the same problem
wont start on gas switch to petrol engine flooded but the gas masked the smell

so as above start on petrol only much easyer to dignose (start) then set the timing get the thing running right on petrol check your coolant levels then switch to lpg

Get a spark tester and see if the spark can jump the gap. I've been caught out several times thinking I had good spark testing with a screwdriver against the block but infact it was too weak. Also I would be using Aerostart/Start Ya Bastard to get it to start initially before switching to LPG.

Have you checked compression? I had an old EH once that would tow start but not off the starter, too much leak down at cranking speeds. Also if its been on gas check for tight exhaust valves, again compression will leak away at cranking speeds. Timing mark is on the flywheel on the distributor side under a little swinging plate.
If the firing order were out or the distributor 180 degrees out I would expect some backifires at least.

Joel

You win mate
Your the only person on this planet that has a Toyota that has Compression,fuel,air,spark,timed right and it still wont start

Water in the Fuel / bad fuel

You sure your turning it on and not off .

dillza_69 wrote:i had the exact same problem on a laser. It ended but being the coil, turns out he spark wasn't strong enough even though it looked good.

this could be it, if you're using aerostart and getting no kick at all out of it it's got to be a spark/lectric or compression issue, and you say the comp is good. Replace the coil and check the power to the coil.

has the head been apart???? valve adjustments correct? (do 2f's have hydrolic lifters??? maybe need to pump up)

i would attempt to tow start it for a few hundred meters then look at borrowing coils etc if it does not start.

im sure that you can see fuel mist in the carby when you pump it.