Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Now we all know of the problems of legally engineering a Sierra to run larger tyres and a more powerful engine. Joey and his SR20 rebuild was restricted to a max tyre height of 31" from memory. Of course a 31" is not big enough.

What about getting a V6 Grand Vitara that has been rolled. All the running gear s good. Remove the body and re body with a LWB Sierra body. Straight axle in the front. Swap to a Sierra t/case with RH series 3. All are engineerable (aren't they?). You would then end up with a significantly stronger chassis and drivetrain that would allow for the strength concern engineers have with Sierra running gear.

As i said just thinking…

And I like your thinking!!!


Just do it grimbo you know you want to

What about just putting bigger diffs under a sierra?

I think the issues concerning tyre size and engineers tend to be along the lines of:

a. Too much load on the wheel bearings

and

b. Too much stress on the drive train due to big engines / big tyres

thats alot of work to do. 31's are probly a bit too small but why not run 33's or a bit bigger anyway, or are there alot of cop issues or is the issue just a legallity?

I'm planning on running 35"s on road, this is with hilux diffs, in nsw do you or others know If I will get away with that? I don't know why it would be a problem, alot of guys around newcastle run 35s. ok I havn't actually seen a zook with them but lots of hilux's get away with it so I think I should.

Back on your topic. if you were to go to that amount of trouble then depending on how the car rolled you could stay with the damaged body and make an art work out of it by, using the plasma cutter and creating a monster. all legally of course. a soft top, tube rear, tube front with a bonnet and build flares, its all good.
ashley

What about just putting bigger diffs under a sierra?

I think the issues concerning tyre size and engineers tend to be along the lines of:

a. Too much load on the wheel bearings

and

b. Too much stress on the drive train due to big engines / big tyres

Bigger diffs under a zook combined with bigger tyres stresses the chassis strength so legally no

By having a drivetrain that is strong enough to begin with in the car already no engineering problems

thats alot of work to do. 31's are probly a bit too small but why not run 33's or a bit bigger anyway, or are there alot of cop issues or is the issue just a legallity?

I'm planning on running 35"s on road, this is with hilux diffs, in nsw do you or others know If I will get away with that? I don't know why it would be a problem, alot of guys around newcastle run 35s. ok I havn't actually seen a zook with them but lots of hilux's get away with it so I think I should.

Back on your topic. if you were to go to that amount of trouble then depending on how the car rolled you could stay with the damaged body and make an art work out of it by, using the plasma cutter and creating a monster. all legally of course. a soft top, tube rear, tube front with a bonnet and build flares, its all good.

i already run 34s albeit not legally on the road but then my car is never driven on the road.

To make a Siera legally run a 35" tyre with a strong enough driveline and a bigger engine is a lot of work too. look at how much work paul pisani had to do for his ute. Using Hilux diffs and 35s might be ok but you lose out on diff clearance, compared to a Vit rear and a Suzana front.

As to the body, i want a soft top that i can take the doors and windscreen off to avoid damage. By cutting down a Vitara body you still have the problem that the windscreen is integral to the body so if you bend it you have a bit of a problem fixing it. I have already thought of the soft top LWB Vitara thing before

Swapping a body and SAS would be a more engineerable process than trying to engineer a motor change, a driveline upgrade, different diffs from another type of vehicle, braking issues, larger tyres

35 would provide good clearance over any smaller tyres. I know your not arguing that, but I have heard it said before that you would loose clearance with a hilux over a vit. I don't see how there can be that much difference when you look at a hilux diff and see how small they are.
I admit I havn't seen the 2 side by side but I am sure that they can't be too much bigger or should I say hang down lower.
I have hilux diffs which have been shaved by the previous owner and it has gained alot of clearence. I must check if he put an oil plug in it so I can change the oil
ashley

Will endeavour to be be brief......

1. Re-bodied vehicles are cool with the RTA, the choice of chassis is the critical factor. The chassis controls what drivetrain and suspension mods can be 'approved'. Similarly, the chassis also controls what body mods you can do. More to the point, the age and designation of the chassis.

eg you could put a 1998 cut up vitara (or sierra) cab on a 1982 hilux chassis, whereas you would find it verydifficult to fit a cut up '82 cab(hilux or sierra) on a '98 vitara chassis. Not because of the 'difficulty' factor, but purely because of the ADR'S associated.
This example also applies to the drivetrain swap'n'match.

2. I've often considered a proposal similar, the biggest thing to remember when dreaming is to identify up front exactly what you want component wise, select a chassis which will cater for the components, build it, approach an engineer for his guidance, and then STICK WITH THE PLAN.

Probably the 2 main limiting factor's (when considdering a chassis), your choice of engine, & diffs. The earlier the chassis the better (for EPA & ADR's etc). Yes the body can be a issue, but, can be argued with to a point.

EG. NAM, from memory, wanted the portals under the zook.
Engineer said no go due to the zook chassis.

If, he were to use a early hilux chassis, or even better a heavily modified small truck chassis (like a dyna or something similar, cut down to fit under the zook body), he could fit the diffs and use the zook body.

Note 1.: trucks use a totally different class of rules, you can change wheelbase, trackwidth, suspension, chassis lenght etc. Obviously you can't do anything and everything, there are rules, but the opportunities to make the rules work for you are much greater.

Note 2.: the above crap is only MY perception of the rules. Speak to certified engineer in your state, discuss you ideas, work with him on his suggestions, create a plan, and do it accordingly.

Note 3.: Don't feel trapped by the rules, be positive, work with the rules. It probably will require more work than most are prepared to do (or spend), but the rules are nothing more than a stumbling block. Think of them as a rockface, sure you could drive around the rock, to get to the other side, but where's the challenge in that.

Sam's (Overkill engineering) engineer will pass 35's on lux diffs under a zuk (so i am on the look out for some 35's )

btw hilux pumkins arnt that much bigger then vitara's

we measured yldo4b's ground clearance against mine he was aired down (tires measured 35) and there was just a bit over an inch difference against my 33's

the lux diffs would loose bugger all diff clearance compared to a vit, if ya that worried about 15mm or whatever, just shave em

You're not listening. I am in Victoria not NSW so Sam's engineer doesn't help. I am trying to think of a way to do something that will be easily engineered for size and strength.

In Victoria there have been problems trying to get 35" tyres, hilux diffs and bigger engine because the Sierra chassis is deemed to be not strong enough. i am trying to propose a way around this.

So what do people think about that idea. i don't care if you think there is bugger all difference between hilux and vitara diffs that's not the question.
Is what I propose a way around it and is it a workable idea. I think it is but…

qld has the tuffest mod laws around and wes managed to get his SPRUNG OVER lux engineered up here, i thought you guys had it easy down there

anyway, what you've proposed sounds like a plan, albeit a costly one. i wouldn't bother with the rebody, seems like a hell of a hassle when ya could just exo it

antt wrote:qld has the tuffest mod laws around and wes managed to get his SPRUNG OVER lux engineered up here, i thought you guys had it easy down there

anyway, what you've proposed sounds like a plan, albeit a costly one. i wouldn't bother with the rebody, seems like a hell of a hassle when ya could just exo it

OR if you're going to so much trouble chopping the roof off... why not chop the windscreen too? I mean, in a way that it can be bolted back on and removed at your leisure. Just a thought...

Grimbo,

Clearly it is time for you to stop asking questions and start buying stuff randomly to get this build going

ICV. make your own square tube chassis.
if you are putting a sierra body back on it, the body will take care of most of the ADR's, the chassis will just have to be of sound workmanship, and strong enough to convince the powers that be to let you run your big arse tyres, engine, whatever..

ok, as per your idea, go for it. If your only diff change is to the front. then you should be good. I'f it's still a solid zook front, with the Vit rear, cool, but legally I think your max will be 31" (again, check with an engineer down your way....).

Body wise, cut to your hearts content, although, I think your engineer will suggest you don't do any radicall cutting forward of the firewall sheet metal due to adr's specifying to crash testing/frontal impact area.

The roof can go, the b pillars (and everywhere behind there) can be modified (as per p/shop sketch).

Windscreen, this will be a pain in the butt, though definately posible. As mentioned, modify the existing windscreen frame such that it is a removable entity (like the sierra, or a 75series cruiser etc). lots of tinwork, but for the willing, quite achievable.

Barwork, as long as it has smooth radius at the front etc (as per the new bull bar rules), most of it is open slather as per your sketch.

If you can pick up a good, cheap donor vehicle,and your prepared to do alot of time consuming tinwork, go for it.

As mentioned, not sure as to the max 'legal' tyres though.......

because the body is a write off, remember it was rolled, says so in the first line of the second paragraph

Drewfus wrote:The roof can go, the b pillars (and everywhere behind there) can be modified (as per p/shop sketch).

the sketch was from another idea I had of doing similar but adding coilovers on GQ diffs. But that was starting with a complete Vitara body not a rolled/destroyed vitara body

Yep the best way is the early chassis and late body -

Some issues jump up , but I think its worthy for thought grimbo.


We found one when we changed to a manual box in my thing .

wouldn't be satisfied doing it like the UK guys the just mount the bod about 4-5 inchs off the chassi, I wanted the lowest possible mounting so now i have to do some more work Loving it !!
A ruff spare body is a plus when doing a rebody , you can cut the crapper out of it , and know exactly what you need to do to the real one

Hehe looks like some bizare safety feature , Sticker would read: Be sure to release hand brake before trying to depress clutch pedal !

grimbo wrote:You're not listening. I am in Victoria not NSW so Sam's engineer doesn't help. I am trying to think of a way to do something that will be easily engineered for size and strength.

In Victoria there have been problems trying to get 35" tyres, hilux diffs and bigger engine because the Sierra chassis is deemed to be not strong enough. i am trying to propose a way around this.

So what do people think about that idea. i don't care if you think there is bugger all difference between hilux and vitara diffs that's not the question.
Is what I propose a way around it and is it a workable idea. I think it is but…

Like I said before grimbo, just do it already.

Seems like a hell cool idea to me and to tell you the truth it will be good to have something different. Make sure you give it a american feel with olive drap and a pretty colour roll cage though.
Anyway it's about time you changed to an all zook running gear eg: motor. That way you can say I drive a zook not a farken tojozook. The Suzi 4wd club in Wa doesn't have tolerance for zooks that don't have 100% running gear, my point keep it suzuki.
And V6 =

I have been having a lot of conversations with our engineer of late. Before I start this only applies for NSW check in your state for there rules.
The biggest tyre we can get engineered on standard Zook diffs are 31. Due to bearing size and brake efficiency.

I have just got some 35's to put onto my Zook (very cheap ) and want to run them on Zook axles. If I convert the rear to discs and flaoting axles then this is possible(not as big a job as it sounds)
The front however is the HARD BIT he wants bigger bearings and bigger brakes.
Hense if you fit Hilux diffs you have meat alll the requirents to run the bigger Tyres(keep dreaming TIM ).

So when I have figured out a way to get the front diff sorted then I will let you all know.
SAM

i still think doz00r is on a winner with the rangie chassis + zook body

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:Hense if you fit Hilux diffs you have meat alll the requirents to run the bigger Tyres(keep dreaming TIM ).


SAM

i will still out wheel ya with 215/75

OVERKILL ENGINEERING wrote:I have been having a lot of conversations with our engineer of late. Before I start this only applies for NSW check in your state for there rules.
The biggest tyre we can get engineered on standard Zook diffs are 31. Due to bearing size and brake efficiency.

I have just got some 35's to put onto my Zook (very cheap ) and want to run them on Zook axles. If I convert the rear to discs and flaoting axles then this is possible(not as big a job as it sounds)
The front however is the HARD BIT he wants bigger bearings and bigger brakes.
Hense if you fit Hilux diffs you have meat alll the requirents to run the bigger Tyres(keep dreaming TIM ).

So when I have figured out a way to get the front diff sorted then I will let you all know.
SAM

Sam what about the hybrid Dana/Vitara front? Would that be deemed strong enough?

N*A*M wrote:i still think doz00r is on a winner with the rangie chassis + zook body

The problem in Victoria about putting different bodies on different chassis's are...........

You are making a 'NEW' vehicle, which will need to comply with the current years ADR's.
More than likely, you will also need to do Crash Testing etc to ewnsure it meets the ADR's.

I originally wanted to put my Feroza body on a cut down Hilux chassis, but I would have had to meet the ADR's from 2002.....not 1993 which the car was released !!

so engineer it in nsw

Ok so what about cutting the roof and windscreen off a Grand vitara body and transplanting a fold down windscreen from say a TJ or similar. I know it is possible to legally run a car without a windscreen as long as you have all the required mirrors. Maybe just a bug guard screen similar to some of the hot rods? So basically do what my pic from a few posts above looks like

N*A*M wrote:so engineer it in nsw

Then he CAN use Sam's Engineer

grimbo wrote:I know it is possible to legally run a car without a windscreen as long as you have all the required mirrors. Maybe just a bug guard screen similar to some of the hot rods?

Yep, in the rodding world, as a guidline, you must have at least 100mm high of glass, and wipers that cover the principal viewing area. No wipers are required if the top edge of glass is below the chin height of the driver/passenger.

Here's a simple idea on a friend from NZ's car......

Again, whilst I said it before, the engineer will be keen to see the sheetmetal from the firewall forward 'looking standard' and not structurally compromised.......

so should their be guards on my car, or am I confused with the subject your on?

Germo we're talking about the windscreen.

Tyre coverage is a must (unfortunately).

Note the car is at the dragstrip where cycle gaurds (mudgaurds) are not required, hence they're often removed ('cause the look better that way....).