Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day all,

broke the spider/sun gears (or shaft) in the rear diff of my RR today.

they were so easy to break...they are out of a disco (10 spline), low kms too. I was bearly on the accelerator from a standing start going up a rock step, it then threw the packing rocks out and it let go. they are WEAK!!

I thought I had broken an axle (and had spares) but didn't.

Not happy Jan!! front wheel drive from Appin to Parramatta (could be worse I guess)

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt!

I've snapped SO many rear cross-pins it is NOT funny...I ended up buying 6 at a time for a GREAT discount (was a college student with no $ for the ARB then).

Go ARB man...Sell ANYTHING, but go ARB.

Yep rover diffs crap so easy to break.

Arb with maxi drive axles.

Maxi drive complete.

JacMac complete.

Michael.

yeah I broke my cwp but it was cause the sungears wents and the cross pin broke and they got in between the cwp and started chewing shit quick.

And my front same sorta thing but the CWP didnt get as distroyed as I was not foot to the floor on the loud pedal at the time.



Complete Maxi Setup front and rear now

I heard that the cross pin was not at fault but was the reasult of the large open holes in the carrier allowing twist through the carrier which distorted and broke the pin.
Another mod I have heard is to put a thrust pad behind the crown wheel
opposite the pinion to help prevent the distortion of the gears trying to spread apart.
J Top

Yes, the joy of Rover diffs. Those 10 spliners have breakage down to an art

Anthony, have you done that LT230 swap yet. Would be the right thing since you spent all that brass on your Maxi-Drives!!!

Trav

I have the lt230 in that other rangie but havnt swapped the tcase over yet, wasnt planing on doin it all straight away but seein as the rear diff busted I am gonna start getting it all underway.....

I cant wait

And yeah the large holes in the rover centres does allow them to flex to much and also cracks when the diff goes boom

G'day all,

got the diff out tonight, pin broke in 2 places, right at the top of both spider/sun gears. didn't destroy CWP though....BUT afew (about 5 I think) of the CW teeth have small nicks taken out of it (right down near the centre of diff from bits falling out I assume!!), and one has a slightly larger piece taken off. These are Maxi drive 4.1 gears ......

As for what to replace it with....it's abit funny that this happened, last tuesday I took delivery of 2 ARB lockers. So I needed an excuse to pull the diff out sooner. changing to 24 spline at the same time and will get maxi axles too.

I'm abit worried about the small bits taken out of the CW though...but don't have the $$$ for a new CWP. think it will be alright ?

)Told you it was the pin

Suggest you switch the front and rear CWP together if that may allow the "notched" CWP to be on the "good" side when in the front position (do you get what I'm trying to say? )...

Good call for teh dual lockers...going down that road as we speak with the "beefier" JM 30 spline set-up (once he answers me and ships them!)

Nadim

It intrigues me that people are still shocked and surprised when they break Rover type diff centres. This has been a well known and documented weakness for the last 56years. Bill.

its shocked me when you see em break under very little stress situations. and when the axles are 100% fine and yet the centre is completely farked.

The axles are ment to be weak most times I have whitnessed it so far the axle was the first thing i have suspected, but every time its the centre wierd.

I think the Discovery diffs use cheap, poor quality sintered metal sun/spider gears, and lower grade SG iron for their carriers than the earlier RangeRover diffs, so if money is really tight you may get better reliability if you fit an earlier one.
Bill.

Bill..."back in the days" when I used to shread pins monthly, I was able to get brand new ones (not genuine) for 5$ each!!! Tells you about material quality huh?

swap in toy centres fit 30 spline jacmac axles all is fine

Michael.,

Wisdom Michael Words Says!

I agree. I'm just in the process of gathering toy diff parts for this for the Disco, except hopefully it'll be set up with 24 spline sides instead of 30. Hope it solves any CW&P issues down the track also.

On the Landy 2a I just in the process (also) of fitting Hilux complete axles under it. The front looks like it will be almost bolt up, the rear a little mach&fab but not much. It will sit 8" wider when complete.

HSV Rangie wrote:swap in toy centres fit 30 spline jacmac axles all is fine

Michael.,

and some Longfields while you are there

if your going to change the front to rear cwp sets,you should check the direction of the teeth as i believe the maxi drive are directional,they are not like the original 3.54 ratio .
thanks rohan

Does anyone know if you can get stronger axles to use with a 10 spline air locker?

Haven't broken one yet (probably because I DO have spares) but it would be nice to not have to be afraid to spin up my 32inch mongrels.

Tony

i am sure jac mac could make you a set

Using air grinder clean up sharp edges on gear teeth, works OK

Bazzle

Remember if you use hilux centres you cannot buy 3.54:1 cwp's unless you buy them from JacMacs. Jason Locke has had a lousy run from
JacMacs 4.7:1's which are made by the same company( Maserati I think)
Bill.

Bill,

That is why I'll be going with 4.88s from either Precion or Superior...Any preference in your POV?

Disco Dino, I am not really up to speed with Hiluxe gear, but isn't there a standard hiluxe cwp that is 4.88 or 4.625? if so I would go for those first before I spend up big on aftermarket stuff.
Bill.

Tony78rr wrote:Does anyone know if you can get stronger axles to use with a 10 spline air locker?

Haven't broken one yet (probably because I DO have spares) but it would be nice to not have to be afraid to spin up my 32inch mongrels.

Tony

Mal story makes heavy duty 10-spline axles from AMS 6418 or I'm sure Jac mac can make you some from Hy Tuff.

But you might as well just change the side gears in the ARB to 24spline then you can buy some 24 spline axles from Mal or Jacmac

G'day all,

I can't change front and rear diffs as front CWP is reverse cut.

the small bits taken out are on the reverse side of the rear CW teeth. I'm more worried about breakage and hardener flaking away, can they be repaired ??

HSV Rangie - This truck is my daily driver, I already had the maxi 4.1's so it wasn't worth spending even MORE money on going hi-lux stuff, I know it would be stronger again but by how much? the 4.1's and ARB's and maxi axles will stop breakages for what this truck will be used for.

I will run Hi-lux stuff in my project landy, or maybe run salisbury's front and rear with 4.7's .... maybe even nissan diffs so I can run 37's - 38's

I would like to have a discussion on reverse cut crownwheel and pinion sets for front diffs. To my mind they are based on unsound principals.
Generally, front diffs are subject to far less strain than rear ones. If someone breaks a front ring and pinion, it is usually when they are reversing out of a hole or up a hill. In this situation the load is on the correct side(drive side) of the teeth with a standard front diff, but with a reverse cut diff the load is on the wrong side(coast side). According to many gear manufacturers a ring and pinion is only 70% as strong on the coast side as it is on the drive side. Your thoughts?
Bill.

Bill,

The aftermarket Toy R&Ps are <200$ each, so taht is a GREAT price compared to 500$ for a weaker 4.11 Rover R&P - that is a main reason why going with this set-up...I just wanted to hear your opinion on company's and their R&P makes (Precision Gear, Yukon, Richmond, Superios, etc...)

As for the Reverse Rotation, you know what happened to Jihad, and I think you're right. Rarely have I heard of a front R&P blow when going forward, usually in the same situation you described which is exactly what happened to Jihad. I am glad that you are building on things! That is a GREAT attitude to ameliorate our sport.

Nadim

Bill,

I suppose it depends on when you think you will be putting the most load on the part. From what I have seen, most of the rockcrawlers (not the most fitting term) in the US often do full throttle climbs where the front end is often bouncing up and down. This puts huge loads on the crownwheel and pinion in the forward direction. As long as they don't try reversing up any hills then that is probably the best setup.

But for most people I think you may be right. Most of us may run into situations where we load up a vehicle going backwards. But this is also the case that often breaks CV'S too. I have broken one CW&P - but it was only a rover 4.7 so that isn't much of a claim. It was on the front and I was driving up a steep hill. I don't think the front was lifting and spinning but it is hard to tell for sure when you are inside the cabin. The diff centre was completely intact.

The people who are fitting std hilux diff centres to their rover housings have to use a reverse cut (high pinion) front to clear the track rod. The Jac Mac case is specially cast so it can use a low pinion centre.

DAS wrote:G'day all,

I can't change front and rear diffs as front CWP is reverse cut.

the small bits taken out are on the reverse side of the rear CW teeth. I'm more worried about breakage and hardener flaking away, can they be repaired ??

HSV Rangie - This truck is my daily driver, I already had the maxi 4.1's so it wasn't worth spending even MORE money on going hi-lux stuff, I know it would be stronger again but by how much? the 4.1's and ARB's and maxi axles will stop breakages for what this truck will be used for.

I will run Hi-lux stuff in my project landy, or maybe run salisbury's front and rear with 4.7's .... maybe even nissan diffs so I can run 37's - 38's

Are you sure you have reverse cut gears DAS??? Don't you just have super duper RR 4.1 R&P's??? In which case I think they are lapped to be front and rear specific but they are not reverse cut. It would be possible to swap them front and back but you would lose some strength.