Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all, I dont know if this has been asked before, I couldnt find the opions/answer im looking for so here go's
Just after some ideas about anti inversion 2" extended shackles, i have had these for some time now on my fj 62 and I have often thought of putting a big bolt through the middle, one side to the other maybe with some steel about 30x30 mill in the middle or just nuts either side of the up rights, not welded in but with tight fitting/tack welded nuts ether end inside of the steel to stop the steel from moving, to make them more stiff/stable, less side to side movement.
Looking at the non anti inversion 2" extended shackles they look like they would be stable but i like the reasons for having the anti inversion shackles.
Would drilling the holes week'en the shackles?
Would this be practical?
Would this change the way the 4wd drives(better or worse)?
Are the non anti inversion 2" extended shackles more stable less side to side movement?
All thoughts would be good thank you.
anti inversion 2" extended shackles

2" extended shackles

on the 4wd

Does the shackle flex really impact the vehicle? Or is it the extra sideways movement that occurs in the bushes due to the length?

On another note, what springs are they and how do you find them? with weight etc?

What's your suspension set up? It's hard to tell from the pics but your shackle angle looks to be pretty knarly.

he has no u-bolts, i'd say it will sit better with some weight on the springs.

Ah! Good call. I completely missed that.

The more (within reason) flexibility you have in your suspension components, the better its going to absorb any shock and the more comfortable the ride is going to be. It may only be a slight difference with the shackles, but in my opinion every bit counts with leaves lol. Personally i'd just leave them.

hulsty wrote:Does the shackle flex really impact the vehicle? Or is it the extra sideways movement that occurs in the bushes due to the length?

On another note, what springs are they and how do you find them? with weight etc?

1Q-The flex makes the diff move side to side about/atleast an inch or at least thats what it feels like and looks like in this old picture.

2Q-The springs are Iron man 2" lifted spings(from steve hobbs), but i gained about 2 1/2" lift, I could have gone the 4"spring but was told that thay can make the ride/flex not all that good and that i would be better off with the long shackles and 2" springs and im happy with this as i am running 35" tyres, 90 lt gas, 80 lt petrol sub tank, steel bar with a 9 1/2 pound winch.
With a load in the back, snow camping gear for a family of four, spear 35" tyre, lots of tools and some miner spears, eskys in other words lots of firetrucking stuff (wifes take everything) plus two jerries of fuel and a big tent for another 4wd that ran out of room, bloody pajero's, there was no real sagg in the rear only about 1/2 an inch or so, see pic below.
When just on day trips thay flex great for a leaf spring. This is what the 4wd is mostly doing, well thats when i get my motor back it will be doing agian, 6 mth's and counting (full rebiuld including lots of new bits e.g. fan, clutch, auto rear diff lock and the list go's on). Should be back on the road next couple of weeks then i will get some actoin shots.
This photo was taken with stock spings befor the new 3" lifted springs went in and 35's went on, i have no action shots, but the feeling is still there.

v840 wrote:What's your suspension set up? It's hard to tell from the pics but your shackle angle looks to be pretty knarly.

Hi mate, should have stated, that photo was taken when i was doing the spring lift and the diff had to be dropped onto the springs and u-bolted, just a in proggress shot. With the new springs in, the shackles are almost straight up/down, as in the pics below you will see, the 4wd was packed for an over night trip, full of fuel for a boys weekend, we were about to leave that was the first trip with the new springs and bushes.

there is nothing wrong with the shackles. leave them as is.

Narrowscopeofreality wrote:The more (within reason) flexibility you have in your suspension components, the better its going to absorb any shock and the more comfortable the ride is going to be. It may only be a slight difference with the shackles, but in my opinion every bit counts with leaves lol. Personally i'd just leave them.

Hi, I agree with you but sometimes the side movement gets anyoing, such as -on certian/extrem side angles it can feel uncomfortble, it feels like the car is some what crab walking, only a small amou,t which can, if your not thinking, make you go off the best line. Im use to it and it's not a big problem but we all are always trying to make our 4be's drive better.
I dont beleave it would efect the spring flex as that is up and down it shouldnt, i beleave, be side to side. Thats just my way of thinking, i could be wrong though as im not a motor mechnic(i wish i was somtimes), just a DIYer with a long family history of mechnic's so i was brought up working on cars in work shops.
Till i get a few poeple telling me this would be a great mod, it will stay as is.

I should say that on the black stuff is not a problem as it is not a daily driver, even though it handles well onroad and yes it dose have sway bars front and rear sorry should have said in first post

hulsty wrote:Does the shackle flex really impact the vehicle? Or is it the extra sideways movement that occurs in the bushes due to the length?

On another note, what springs are they and how do you find them? with weight etc?

This is the spring when i got them just incase your wondering the amout of leaves and so on.

Superior Engineering welds the pins in their extended shackles so they dont flog out the pins and holes like cheaper brands.

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/p ... ts_id=2296

By adding a stiffner in the middle you may stop a little bit of side flexing but you will most likely find that it is also your bushes getting squashed allowing the side flex.

Cris

missamy wrote:Superior Engineering welds the pins in their extended shackles so they dont flog out the pins and holes like cheaper brands.

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/p ... ts_id=2296

if you want to keep em legal don't go welding to the shackles.

graysfj62 wrote:

hulsty wrote:Does the shackle flex really impact the vehicle? Or is it the extra sideways movement that occurs in the bushes due to the length?

On another note, what springs are they and how do you find them? with weight etc?

This is the spring when i got them just incase your wondering the amout of leaves and so on.

Your problem is more likely related to have ironman springs and bushes there never the highest quality ,Proudly made in indonesia .

joeblow wrote:

missamy wrote:Superior Engineering welds the pins in their extended shackles so they dont flog out the pins and holes like cheaper brands.

http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/p ... ts_id=2296

if you want to keep em legal don't go welding to the shackles.

I'm not sure about where you are, but extended shackles are illegal in most states in this country anyway, so i doubt that welding to them would make them any more or less illegal. Besides, since they are an aftermarket product, what if they already came with the welded bar in the middle like so many of them do?

Your earlier post about not worrying about the flex in them is also a bit curious. When he get the death wobbles because the diff is able to move side to side in relation to the steering gear i'm sure he'll thank you for the advice to not worry about a component that is meant to be solid flexing away like crazy. Flexing in extended shackles is a sure way to load the pins in a manner that they were never designed for, in a cyclic manner. Sooner or later they will snap or flog out. The flex should be in the bushes not in the steel hardware that they are mounted on unless they are designed to do that (i.e. climax shackles etc.)

Flex in a suspension system is good. Slop is not. There's a difference, and what he is describing is slop. I know you're a great fabricator/builder and i've been following your work so i don't want to offend, but after spending ages working on a 75x getting it right i find your comments a bit offhand and misleading.

I welded a small piece of rhs in the middle of mine, best thing I ever did to improve handling on the road. In no longer wonders all over the road at high speed, much easier to drive. But I think I sacrificed a little bit of flex though.

If anything drill a hole through the middle and use a crush tube and high tensile zinc bolt.

Cris

sambo wrote:I welded a small piece of rhs in the middle of mine, best thing I ever did to improve handling on the road. In no longer wonders all over the road at high speed, much easier to drive. But I think I sacrificed a little bit of flex though.

I would expect to lose a small amount of flex off road as the leafs twist when flexing to certain amount and some of that is hapening in your shakle as well.

but it would be less vauge on road.

ludacris wrote:If anything drill a hole through the middle and use a crush tube and high tensile zinc bolt.

Cris

They already have a sort of crush tube by having stepped bolts. Another crush tube is just going to form another leg in a parallellogram. Admittedly a welded bar is going to be similar but by using say 40x20 you'll get a bit more leverage advantage.

as far as i am aware, if you have set up your leafs properly you shouldnt have the need to run anti inversion shackles, and also as far as i am aware 2 inch lifted springs shouldnt need them,

if the suspension is set up correctly your shackles shouldnt invert,(although i think with the extra length in them that is why they do start to with the same sized length springs)

also i am pretty sure your diffs should move in that way, one wheel is tucked up and the other is lower, of course they are going to move in and out, the angle they are on makes it look like they have moved too much, but i think you will find thats why the flex is working, if ou stiffen it up to much, as mentioned above you may flog out your bushes too quick.

i think alsong as you cant see damage occuring, (stress fractures, worn shafts on the shackles) you shouldnt be to worryed, and if you are call up a few places that deal with leafs often and ask them some questions, i would say not some where like arb or tjm, but some where that does resetting and dont just tell ya to run off the shelf items, ive talked to alot of people who have had alot more success than we would think possible from getting custom length and custom rate mains, and combining leafs from other packs. than you would think were possible....

buttlux88 can fab you up some 9 inch shackles

was a 75 wrote:buttlux88 can fab you up some 9 inch shackles

will those help me fit 35's to my GQ and will that affect my wheelbase?

The idea of a anti-inversion is not only for longer spring setups but second reason is if you drive the spring hard enough into a object like a stump or rock the anti-inversion shackle will stop the spring getting damaged, if i had $20 for every suzuki, patrol, or cruiser i have seen with bent STANDARD or raised springs i would be a lot happier.

The shackles must be rigid , they are not supposed to be flexible , that is why they have poly or rubber bushes.
Welding a shackle does not make it elligal, especially as stated when a extended shackle is already illegal in all states of australia as far as i am aware.

I have seen endless other brand shackle plates flogged out because they are to lazy to weld the shackle, some or the other manufactures went a different approach and used a double locking fixed pin, this also works well .

For those who have never looked at how a shackle is made it is only a peice on mild steel punched out, a shackle pin with a knurl is pressed in and that is it, when you get any side ways hits on your suspension the first thing to start showing stress is the shackle pin, once the pin has become slightly loose they then will turn as the bushes become full of crap, after that they then were the shackle plates( as the shackle plates are mild and the pins are hardened) , after that you get shit steering.