Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just wondering if anyone has heard of people breaking wheelstuds if the rim isnt seated on the hub, relying on the wheelstuds to take the weight.


Cheers,
Dan

Driving? they will wear, and possibly snap the studs, or the studs will unwind = wheel falls off.

If the wheel is sitting on the hub, with the nuts locating the rim in the centre of the hub, with the right rim/nut tapers, Tight, They should be fine

the hub doesnt really take that much weight anyway, you would need the fit to be so tight that its hard to get the rim on before the hub takes a great deal of weight(or for therim to be moving around on the studs a lot, so that the lower part of the rim is always on the hub...)

in reality it wont make that much differance. wheel studs are more likely to break because the nuts arent done up to the correct torque

broken studs
hmmm
let me guess , they were done up with a rattle gun ???

nerida67 wrote:broken studs
hmmm
let me guess , they were done up with a rattle gun ???

correction, done up too tight with a rattle gun. Just because a rattle gun is used doesn't automatically mean they were done up too tight. They can be done up too tight by hand aswell

yeah your right there young fella
toooo tight with a rattle gun

Hey Dan,

Also beware that the nut isn't bottoming out on the stud if you have alloys. Don't think them rim not sitting on the hub would break them hasn't in my experience.

My 2 cents

Scanas

I havn't broken any myself, its just im having trouble finding some wider rims to suit my bravo, which has a 93mm diameter hub, all rims i seem to find have 115 or something like that. Which means the wheel wont sit on the hub at all, and i dont want to do it if it is dangerous.

it is dangerous.
you need to keep the wheel hub-centric.
you can get rings from your local tyre guy, or get some machined up at an engineering shop.

The rear diff on most 4wds don't have a centric ring on them...
Most aftermarket rims are 115mm id to fit the Nissans, so most 4wd Toyota, Isuzu, Mazda, etc. and have aftermarket rims on them don't use the centric ring on the front either...

legally if it came hub-centric, it needs to be maintained, and for good reason in my opinion

love ke70 wrote:legally if it came hub-centric, it needs to be maintained, and for good reason in my opinion

This is my opinion too.

I also thought that wheel shops could supply suitable inserts for different centres.

Matt_85Lux wrote:

nerida67 wrote:broken studs
hmmm
let me guess , they were done up with a rattle gun ???

correction, done up too tight with a rattle gun. Just because a rattle gun is used doesn't automatically mean they were done up too tight. They can be done up too tight by hand aswell

You can't do them up all the way with a rattle gun without a massive risk of overtightening them. I would not let anyone near mine with a rattle gun but if you must use one, you have to stop and do the last bit with a normal brace. Just my opinion. I don't know anyone who really knows cars who would use a rattle gun for this job.

I have done up thousands of wheels with a rattle gun, only time I've ever had a problem is when I've cross threaded them by not starting them properly. If you know how to use a 1/2" rattle gun properly you won't have any dramas. If you are a complete retard and rattle the fawk out of them you will.

chimpboy wrote:

love ke70 wrote:legally if it came hub-centric, it needs to be maintained, and for good reason in my opinion

This is my opinion too.

I also thought that wheel shops could supply suitable inserts for different centres.

Matt_85Lux wrote:

nerida67 wrote:broken studs
hmmm
let me guess , they were done up with a rattle gun ???

correction, done up too tight with a rattle gun. Just because a rattle gun is used doesn't automatically mean they were done up too tight. They can be done up too tight by hand aswell

You can't do them up all the way with a rattle gun without a massive risk of overtightening them. I would not let anyone near mine with a rattle gun but if you must use one, you have to stop and do the last bit with a normal brace. Just my opinion. I don't know anyone who really knows cars who would use a rattle gun for this job.

wheel shops have the device that limits the torque that goes through the stud, i believe they work and let my tyre guy rattle gun my studs and have not had an issue with stretching...but a standard socket on the end of a gun i wouldnt wanna do.

To the OP.

Why do you ask this question?

Over the years there have been studs that break for many reasons, heat treatment, wrong material, overstressed at some time, too loose etc etc.

Bazzle

bazzle wrote:To the OP.

Why do you ask this question?

Over the years there have been studs that break for many reasons, heat treatment, wrong material, overstressed at some time, too loose etc etc.

Bazzle

I havnt broken any.

Its just that I have always been told with my street cars, that the wheel needs to sit on the hub properly because if it doesnt, you will break studs. Been on the phone to a few aftermarket suppliers, chasing some wider rims for my Bravo, they all tell me that it will be fine you dont need to have it seated on the hub.
Im just not sure i want to rely on the studs only.....

wheels sitting on the hubs
hubs takin all the load
myth
standard wheels/sunraisers ect have a tapered wheel nut
most alloys,(not sure on later ones , but the early ones)had a long wheel nut that fit inside the wheel(long shank sorta thing)
most early fords with chrome 12 slotters have a large hub centred rim on a small hub centred car,dont see many of them break studs
there has been plenty writin on the subject over time and the hub size wasnt the cause of broken studs
as said above either, ill fitting wheels, wrong wheel nuts, metal fatigue or over tightening
if buying new rims for your vechicle the wheel/tyre shop will know wat wheel nuts u require

I had a gq with 40s on and drum rear with alloy rims and they didnt sit right on the little locating bit sat out abit, they wound the wheel nuts off twice in one day, the first time was going pretty fast and had to absail off my winch to go fetch it outa a valley. Just attacked the centers witha die grinder was fine after that.

Ahhh... what your worried about is will the studs break if the rim is not hubcentric.
Probably not on a 6 stud wheel but you 'may' get runout thats all.

Bazzle

big lux wrote:I had a gq with 40s on and drum rear with alloy rims and they didnt sit right on the little locating bit sat out abit, they wound the wheel nuts off twice in one day, the first time was going pretty fast and had to absail off my winch to go fetch it outa a valley. Just attacked the centers witha die grinder was fine after that.

So your wheels weren't sitting flush against the drum with your wheel nuts tightened?

yes Zeyphly this is correct.

nerida67 wrote:wheels sitting on the hubshubs takin all the load
myth

I have seen various street cars shear wheel studs due to not having centre bore locators fitted inside thir aftermarket wheels. Maybe 4wd studs are designed to take the load but some car studs aren't?

chunks wrote:

nerida67 wrote:wheels sitting on the hubshubs takin all the load
myth

I have seen various street cars shear wheel studs due to not having centre bore locators fitted inside thir aftermarket wheels. Maybe 4wd studs are designed to take the load but some car studs aren't?

Wheel studs are NOT designed to carry vehicle load. That is the job of the centre spigot.

People (including myself) "get away with it" because the tension in the studs creates a significant clamping force, so metal on metal friction (between rim & hub) effectively carries the weight.

Keep the mounting faces of wheel & hub scrupulously clean, and tighten wheel nuts with a wheel brace.

-Scott- wrote:
Keep the mounting faces of wheel & hub scrupulously clean, and tighten wheel nuts with a wheel brace.

spot on!



ill bet, that any rim that 'sits' on the hub, will have a gap still. it might not be much of a gap, but its enuf that its not taking a load.

follow what scott says and you will have no probs regardless

-Scott- wrote:Wheel studs are NOT designed to carry vehicle load. That is the job of the centre spigot.

People (including myself) "get away with it" because the tension in the studs creates a significant clamping force, so metal on metal friction (between rim & hub) effectively carries the weight.

Keep the mounting faces of wheel & hub scrupulously clean, and tighten wheel nuts with a wheel brace.

This thread has been saved.

The hub centre only takes the load if the friction grip between the wheel and hub is overwhelmed. This isn't normal operation unless your wheel nuts are loose or you're getting airborne too often.

Thanks for all the info guys!
Guess I will throw some rims on and see how it goes. If it breaks, ill fix it and wont do it again. Lesson learnt!

Cheers,
Dan