Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Gday all!

I am seeking information from someone in the know, or someone who can help regardless, and I know this applies to many of us with lifted patrols. And many of us are all happy to run the risk of one day maybe, being caught, and or the grey area of insurance matters...

Police will tell you outright that there is a 2inch lift rule... Yet this really is not the case.

If you read through qld transport documents you will find information thats written in the form of how to lower your vehicle, but very little information describes how to raise your vehicle legally....


Now... There is no such modification codes for an engineer to write up a plate for a legal lift. There is for body blocks, but not just lift specifically. Nor is there ones for chassis mounted rock sliders. YET if they are still within the confines of the outmost part of the body of the car when viewd from a birds eye perspective, they are actually legal.


back to lift. Now If we are to raise a GU patrol, From every piece of information I have found so far - and after speaking to an engineer, we can find the MAXIMUM travel on a standard GU patrol from bumpstop to limiter, find this distance, add 1/3 and raise our by suspension this much...

Check out page 5
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resourc ... icles2.pdf


Has anyone done this before, and can anyone measure this distance if they have a high lift jack - or a normal jack would work if your lifting the car by the chassis and not the diff. and calculate the gap between their bump stop at 0mm to full distance away from bump stops at the point the wheel starts lifting off the ground. Im trying to do this legitimately, and I already have a lift kit, so its hard for me to work backward without redoing everything...

I am ultimately searching for the exact stock travel distance, so i can nail this in the head once and for all! and have a true calculated allowance specific to the car. to keep the police happy when they wanna know how much lift you have.

Thanks for anyone who can be of help!



Still reading away...

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resourc ... eb2004.pdf

Page 78 makes things a little more interesting... ....

Does anyone know the original manufactures travel distance

I read about this 1/3 rule when I was lifting my car. I believe you have misunderstood the wording. My understanding is that you just measure the distance between the rubber bumpstop and where it contacts the diff housing and that is the measurement you are working off, no need to actually measure the travel. So if the distance is 6" you can lift your car upto 1/3 of that distance = 2". As it turned out I only had something like 4" on my GQ but it was on the original springs which were sagged so without buying some genuine Nissan springs I didn't know how far I could go. In the end I just got over it and put in a 2" lift. I'm not sure that the 1/3 rule still applies with the new standards anyway?

Yeah, I see what you are saying, Just, I spoke to the engineer who will happily mod cars done properly, in any of the fields mentioned in the brochure that qld transport supplies... However he said

The only way I can cover myself - as there is no mod code for lift...
is by doing it on paper, and figuring it out car specific, and measuring these distances. So that unlike last night, when pulled over, I can explain that my lift is appropriate for MY car...

Because as the rule states its really car specific - not all cars will equal a 2 inch lift when calculated from the 1/3 measurement.

"This onus is on the modifier/owner of the modified vehicle to ensure these standards are
satisfied."

According to the police, I have to show a mod plate for my 3" lift....
bit difficult when there is no mod plate for this "defect"



"Body Lift Kits
The maximum allowable height increase permitted by Queensland Transport has been set at
50 millimetres (2 inches).
Suspension Height Modifications
The suspension travel in the bump or rebound mode must not be altered by more than onethird
of that measurement as specified by the original manufacturer."


What is the suspension travel in the bump or rebound mode..... that to me is measured at full 'flex' i think?

I love how its all so simple!

The other thing that puts me off working on anything other then full suspension travel, is what if you have no load in the back, or a full load, or different models of patrol from base to luxury, they would all sit at different heights, depending on how much fuel you are carrying etc...

Which would make sense to measure a constant, that being the full travel of the axel.????
no?

very grey area indeed
so a 2" body lift is legal without mod plate ???
a 2" spring and shock lift is legal wihout mod plate ???
anyone know about shackle lifts being legal ???
only interested in queensland road laws
(backward state it is )

nerida67 wrote:very grey area indeed
so a 2" body lift is legal without mod plate ???
a 2" spring and shock lift is legal wihout mod plate ???
anyone know about shackle lifts being legal ???
only interested in queensland road laws
(backward state it is )

body lifts can only be complianced by QLD DOT. it requires the car to go over the pits and be inspected, and yes max of 2 inch body blocks. there is no such code for a blue plate for suspension or body lifts that im aware off.
2 inch spring lift is legal in QLD
extended shackles are not legal in QLD

Ibsn wrote: The suspension travel in the bump or rebound mode

I read that as upwards travel from rest, not from maximum drop to maximum rebound..
But that's only talking about suspension _travel_, not maximum raised height. They are obviously related, but not the same thing.

chopped,
so a body lift is legal,no mod plate,but must go over the pits ???
sounds a bit wrong ???
so if a rwc inspector was to pass body lift,then its legal ???

nerida67 wrote:chopped,
so a body lift is legal,no mod plate,but must go over the pits ???
sounds a bit wrong ???
so if a rwc inspector was to pass body lift,then its legal ???

for a body lift to be legal it has to be inspected by DOT. u cannot get a mod plate for body lift. QLD DOT give you documents so say this body lift is legal for this vin # etc...
a rwc inspector can not pass a body lift.

I thought they stopped doing body lifts. Is this correct.
Has anyone got one past in the last 2 months.

I have not heard from anyone in the industry that body lifts are illegal in QLD.

As far as i was aware the 1/3 rule related to the the shock as the shock is the "rebound bumpstop" in a solid axle.

Dave metcalf from extreme 4x4 sports http://www.xtreme4x4sport.com.au/
he has delt with QLD dot officers in depth over all this crap.
This is who you should talk to.



As their is little information / mod codes for suspension you will find it very time consuming and expensive to pursue it.
Good luck with it but.

I think this just about sums it up,

Exactly what the engineer said to me this morning, you can do body lift provided you provide all the evidence of doing it correctly. And you have to have it all in writing with photos etc. You only get one shot at it, so do it right the first time....

"It should be noted that both modifications can be performed simultaneously to a vehicle to gain extra vehicle body height but individual specifications must not be exceeded.

Modifiers may have to obtain the original bump stop clearance to calculate the allowable acceptable increase.

A policy in relation to this matter has now been finalised and will require:

• An individual vehicle modification application to be made to Queensland Transport for body lift kits (blocks between body/cabin and chassis mounts) up to 50 mm in height. Applications must indicate all changes being made to implement the modification (including steering and braking componentry) and materials used in the lifting blocks.

Body lifts in excess of 50 mm will not be considered.

If acceptable, a letter of approval for the installation of a body lift kit will be issued by Queensland Transport.

Page 79
• Suspension height modifications carried out in accordance with good engineering practice will be considered acceptable where the suspension travel in the bump or rebound mode is not altered by more than one-third of that measurement as specified by the original manufacturer. A vehicle modification application will not be required."


Back to my original question....

Does anyone know What is the.... Manufactures Specification of suspension travel in a GU patrol..

Based on-

where the suspension travel in the bump or rebound mode is not altered by more than one-third of that measurement as specified by the original manufacturer

surely that kind of technical specification would be available from nissan, or in some sort of workshop manual. why dont you search the net for some sort of standard spec list?

I can assure you nick, I have looked thru the workshop manual, spoken to qld tansport, looked for standard specs online, and called Nissan before I would waste my time on here...

just this 2 inch lift rule (that police stick too), inst actually true. - as different cars have different clearances. IE a 2 inch lift on a suzuki is far more signifigant then on a 2.7 tonne GU, hence using a car specific rule of 1/3

Qld transport and various other people, including pineapple st zillmere. Have advised to have the BEFORE and AFTER measurements written down when confronted by the police.

I just wanna know exactly in millimeters, what you can get away with on a GU provided you calculate 1/3.

It strikes me that noone has done it b4?????

Its been done before, that is why i previously posted talk to dave metcalfe.
1 x Phone call you will have the answer you require.

Ibsn wrote:Does anyone know What is the.... Manufactures Specification of suspension travel in a GU patrol..

if you dont wanna take superiors advice, go and test drive a bog stock GU.. pull over and measure yourself.

bogged wrote:if you dont wanna take superiors advice, go and test drive a bog stock GU.. pull over and measure yourself.

yes, thanks for the advice, I have taken on superiors suggestion. However I was trying to avoid jumping on the blower first thing monday morning and harrasing dave over the phone - whom i have never done business with - his time is money! In the hope that someone knew the original clearance off hand here.

If you don't know what the manufactures specification on bump stop clearance, you wont find that on a bog stock GU, as more then likely it will have sagged... Therefor you would be cutting yourself short on how much you can lift it.

So yes, thanks superior, it does look like as a last resort, I'll give Dave a call...

Some quite interesting reading.

<laugh at my expense>
Apparently $1000 engineers certificate doesn't mean jack these days, even in NSW. Got pinged on Thursday night by highway patrol. 37's and a little 5 inch lift. The engineers report meant bugger all to them. Took them an hour to go over my ute, gave me 9 defects. Nearly missed Family Guy. Ute is now off the road.

</laugh at my expense>

factory bumpstop gap in GU is 50mm
factory bumstop in GQ is 65mm

The reason i know this is i measured a few while still in the nissan dealerships when new.

You need factory shock measurement also, you will get this from any shock manufacturer as they would have had to have it to manufacture their shocks.

If you can't get it by the morning give me a call at work and i will measure a standard front and rear shock in my shock rubbish pile.

Mick.

just to clarify on the body lift. This is the email response i received on the 4th of feb 2010


Thank you for contacting the Department of Transport an Main Roads regarding the approval process for body lifts to vehicles

The process is as follows:
Complete and submit F1854 Motor Vehicle Modification Application Department will return an approval letter and direction to have vehicle inspected and conditions that should be followed when performing the lift Once completed, a booking will need to be made for a Inspection with a Transport Inspector Transport Inspector will issue and endorse final approval


Hope this helps

that is correct then u take it down to DOT and they look right over ur car
and check the bolts are high tensil on the body lift.
i got passed and aproved with 3'' flexi coils how ever they told me
its 40mm max spring lift (going by the 1/3 rule) i just said im not shore what lift it has they looked over it and signed it off .
they made me get my rear wiper fixed but were not worried about 3'' springs or 33's

Ibsn wrote:If you don't know what the manufactures specification on bump stop clearance, you wont find that on a bog stock GU, as more then likely it will have sagged... Therefor you would be cutting yourself short on how much you can lift it....

so new GU's have sagged?

WWMT.

just going on the very bottom of this file http://www.roadsmart.com.au/docs/NCOPApprovalCodes.pdf i thought you need a mod plate for anything over 50mm/2" of lift but that is for Queensland. i hope that may have helped some people

Hi All, I'm new here but have been reading all your queries regarding suspension lift in QLD. I too have a lifted Patrol (Maverick), 5inch plus 2 inch body and 36 inch centipedes. Luckily I don't have to travel far to work but am getting worried with the crack down on modified fourbees by the everpresent DOT.

I have spoken directly with the department's modification officer in Brisbane and he basicallly read word for word out of the code of practice but with his spin on it.

The current code of practice states for suspension height increase (or decrease) that the travel in bump or rebound mode may not be decreased by more than a third. This means that when lowering your car, the 'bump' or 'up' travel cannot be decreased by more than a third. Of course that doesn't concern us 4x4 enthusiasts though so here's the impotant bit, the 'rebound' travel is the distance the shock absorber travels down from standard ride height to it's stop. So of course when you lift the vehicle, this distance decreases. The same principal can be used for ifs/irs setups.

The hard part is finding out what this distance is especially when vehicles are old and sagged or previously modified from showroom condition. The guy at DOT couldn't tell me either and said that it's generally accepted that 50mm is the general rule of thumb... but I can't live with that. It's gotta be black or white when it comes to defect notices. Unfortunately I don't know the rebound travel measurement on a standard patrol or maverick as I bought mine already modified, it even passed the roadworthy. The guy who did that didn't know either so he just passed it.

Tyres are another story he (the DOT guy) went on to say that yes, the maxmum increase for tyre size is 15mm taller than the largest size tyre on the vehicles tyre placard, measured at standing height on the car fully loaded. I know I'll never get the 36's approved but there is light at the end of the tunnel. They are looking at relaxing the rule for 4wd's so as to allow a 50mm increase in overall height, (WOW I can run 32's then, awesome).

All the posts about body lifts are correct. Yes you do have to apply in writing with all details of how you are to do it, what material the blocks are made of, bolts, adjustments to steering and or brake lines etc etc.
Then you have to get it inpected. Make sure your car is 110% roadworthy, these guys will find anything to put your car off the road. A mate of mine put his over for the blocks and they picked the flasher was slightly too fast

Hope this helps

PS, does anyone know the rebound travel, front and rear of a gq patrol?

god these laws are crap, seriously what raising your vehicle 2 bloody inches goin to do, stuff all when 4wding, these stupid laws is the exact reason less and less people are obiding by these laws , how nany lifted patrols do you see getting around now then say 2 - 3 years ago, and i nean lifts 4 - 7 inch, unfortunatly i love 4wdin nearly every weekend so legal or illegal the 7inch lift is stayin in for ne

RIZZO wrote:god these laws are crap, seriously what raising your vehicle 2 bloody inches goin to do, stuff all when 4wding, these stupid laws is the exact reason less and less people are obiding by these laws , how nany lifted patrols do you see getting around now then say 2 - 3 years ago, and i nean lifts 4 - 7 inch, unfortunatly i love 4wdin nearly every weekend so legal or illegal the 7inch lift is stayin in for ne

its been said before.

its cars cruising around with illegal 7 inch lifts which make 4wds more of a target. why 7 ?

Just have to find out the rebound travel, (ride height position to full droop)front and rear and go off that, the code of practice goes on to state, it is up to the owner of the vehicle to make sure that the vehicle complies. So, if the the rebound travel is say 6 inches, yes one third is only 2 inches and that's all you can legally raise the vehicle.But let's say it was 12 inches, you could raise the vehicle 4 and so on.

It does raise the question though, what if you put longer shocks in? Your rebound travel is dramitacally increased. Besides that the department doesn't have the figures to compare against therefore cannot say that you have decreased the bumpstop rebound travel by more than a third... because they don't know what it actually is. Really how can they fine you and say that the car is unroadworthy when they really don't know if it is according to the legislation?

Gotta try and use their rules back against them. I read in a forum elsewhere that a DOT guy who is fourbee mad, got his hilux with shock hoops and landcruiser shocks (reversed), all approved. Although he is still only running 2inch spring and 2inch body.

I guess if you can do all the measurements and show all the figures on paper and prove it with photos etc, you could fight them with their own ammo. If we did, which I will try, it could just open the door for everyone.

Just gotta find out the rebound travel measurement on a standard patrol.

Has anybody put it to the DOT that if they (DOT & Police) don't know what the rebound travel is they can not ping us for it?

I have done some measuring in the past.

If you took the full travel of the shock then we could just legally have a 2" lift, maybe a tad over, however the law is talking about down travel from static ride height. This means you must take the 1/3 measurement at nearly half the travel of the shock.

This means that it is illegl to lift your Patrol anywhere near 2 inches. Now please do not go and tell the transport department because they either don't know or they are gentleman. Lets keep everbody's head in the sand so we can keep getting our 3" lift vehicles on the road. (most of the time)

Hopefully the new rules will come in soon which give us clear boundaries however at the end of the day, the amount of vehicles we see lifted on the road will always be proportional to how much the law is policed.

Shane

RIZZO wrote:god these laws are crap, seriously what raising your vehicle 2 bloody inches goin to do, stuff all when 4wding, these stupid laws is the exact reason less and less people are obiding by these laws , how nany lifted patrols do you see getting around now then say 2 - 3 years ago, and i nean lifts 4 - 7 inch, unfortunatly i love 4wdin nearly every weekend so legal or illegal the 7inch lift is stayin in for ne

how does lifting it 7" make it more capable? Why not keep it low, add lockers and gearing and it will out perform a massive lift 9 times out of 10