Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ok, I know there will be a lot of answers "take it out and put a locker in" but I was after any info on what can be done to make Toyota LSD centres work better, what actually wears out or lets the LSD down in toyotas, is it the clutches, springs or both? is it possible to replace with better or aftermarket items?

I have only ever heard of "rip it out and put a locker in"

It's likely to be cheaper to fit a lokka or similar.

AFAIK it is the clutches that wear out.. it may be possible to shim? or if they are very worn (like a motorbike clutch pack i had once) add an extra second hand plate in the pack...dunno if this is possible or not. I would be interested in other answers too

I'm watching this thread to as my hilux lsd is absolutely useless.

I have a r33 for my road car that has a lsd that is getting on a bit aswell. I have seen articles on the net about shimming it out. Through trial and error with shims you can make it tight as or a bit looser still. So is there any reason why you couldn't do this with a toyota diff?

I don't know the answer sorry.

What I can add is that I've heard of more than one person who have paid to have their LSD "shimmed up." In all cases the result has been a great, tight LSD...... For the first few thousand km, then it's back to useless.....

Honestly, I think you'd be clutching at straws trying to make it what it's not. Either retrofit another make into the housing, or put a posi traction style locker in there like a Detroit.

I have heard of someone that had a substantial amount of work done to there toyota LSD to make it work better, but he was not forth coming of what had been done I would be interesting to see if there were any other clutches from another make of vehicle that did fit or could be modified to fit, or the housing could be modified to fit them. What 4x4's have good LSD set ups??

maybe 9" ford LSD clutches could be adapted in??

It is possible to "shim" the LSD to make it tighter, but it will just "loosen" up after a period of time. I know you dont want to hear it, but a locker is the best option.

Layto....

I have sourced an Eaton LSD centre second hand for my 40. Essential for trophy class in tough tracks where an LSD is all we're allowed. It has only just been put in, will be tested this weekend. Not sure where to get them from or any specifics on them. Was told it should go as well as a patrol LSD.

Given the warranted bad rep for toyota LSD's you would have to put money on the issue being largely based on the friction material or the solid plates so unless you can deal with those it is money wasted. Given that shimming is only a short term fix would lead me to the same conclusion so putting in additional plates would only appear to do the same thing as shimming. Unless you can find other paltes that fit or get the original rebonded with better material I would say forget it. Given that Toyota LSD's have not been fixed for something like 20 years also does not bode well.

TOSS IT OUT.

Yeah mate first anyone who says its shiiit go buy a nissan.
second get it rebuilt you can add an extra clutch packs on each side .The biggest modification is to get it built using the crush tubes then they strip it again measure the crush tubes and get shims made for it .Doing this does a couple of things helps it lock better and not wear bearings. basic maintenace helps like oil changes usually after any water use (just to be safe) I find using a heavey duty oil stabaliser helps.
Ash diffs in melbourne did mine for $450 i think his dad taught him ,He learn't building v8 super car diffs when they were real cars.
Mines in i don't hear a peep out of it till it locks .

Huh
WTF is debug

For not much more than 450 you could fit a auto lokka or get your hands on a second hand air locker

hulsty wrote:For not much more than 450 you could fit a auto lokka or get your hands on a second hand air locker

In the rear diff go on then watch your tyres and drivability die
and the noise

flyology pm me if you want his number talk to him and see what he says .He will give you a good honest apinoin of what you need

beinthemud wrote:

hulsty wrote:For not much more than 450 you could fit a auto lokka or get your hands on a second hand air locker

In the rear diff go on then watch your tyres and drivability die
and the noise

Maybe he's better off selling the cruiser and going and buying a Nissan.

fester2au wrote:

beinthemud wrote:

hulsty wrote:For not much more than 450 you could fit a auto lokka or get your hands on a second hand air locker

In the rear diff go on then watch your tyres and drivability die
and the noise

Maybe he's better off selling the cruiser and going and buying a Nissan.

Yeah put an auto locker in a trool can't make them any worse

beinthemud wrote:Yeah mate first anyone who says its shiiit go buy a nissan.
second get it rebuilt you can add an extra clutch packs on each side .The biggest modification is to get it built using the crush tubes then they strip it again measure the crush tubes and get shims made for it .
Doing this does a couple of things helps it lock better and not wear bearings. basic maintenace helps like oil changes usually after any water use (just to be safe) I find using a heavey duty oil stabaliser helps.
Ash diffs in melbourne did mine for $450 i think his dad taught him ,He learn't building v8 super car diffs when they were real cars.
Mines in i don't hear a peep out of it till it locks .

BS. WTF has a crush tube got to do with a LSD. Extra clutches might work and a LSD locking with a major difference in traction will never happen its part of the design. Ive shimmed LSDs before (3-4mm shimms) and its a waste of time. If your not worried about longevity fill the diff with 85-140 weight diff oil and get it HOT and you will be surprised how good it is.

Used to put an extra intermediate plate in Ford 9" lsd's maybe something like that will work.

what did you do just guess 3-4mm shims no wonder it didn't work i guess thats why lsd have a bad name cause of people doing it half a55ed ,Mate do what ever

beinthemud wrote:

fester2au wrote:

beinthemud wrote:

hulsty wrote:For not much more than 450 you could fit a auto lokka or get your hands on a second hand air locker

In the rear diff go on then watch your tyres and drivability die
and the noise

Maybe he's better off selling the cruiser and going and buying a Nissan.

Yeah put an auto locker in a trool can't make them any worse

Can't destroy perfection chief . Sorry forgot I'm a Toyota driver these days.

Can't be too manyaroound who know how and can do your suggested trick or at least not for a good price or else it would be far more common. Or is it just that we are all looking for any excuse to spend money on our trucks so when a legitimate one turns up we jump on it.

beinthemud wrote:what did you do just guess 3-4mm shims no wonder it didn't work i guess thats why lsd have a bad name cause of people doing it half a55ed ,Mate do what ever

Nope thats the biggest I could fit in with a 60T press. Was an old anchor pin washer off truck brakes before I got it machined to the right dimensions.

-Nemesis- wrote:I don't know the answer sorry.

What I can add is that I've heard of more than one person who have paid to have their LSD "shimmed up." In all cases the result has been a great, tight LSD...... For the first few thousand km, then it's back to useless.....

Honestly, I think you'd be clutching at straws trying to make it what it's not. Either retrofit another make into the housing, or put a posi traction style locker in there like a Detroit.

wat Nem said

x 20,000,000,000

Zookified wrote:I'm watching this thread to as my hilux lsd is absolutely useless.

I have a r33 for my road car that has a lsd that is getting on a bit aswell. I have seen articles on the net about shimming it out. Through trial and error with shims you can make it tight as or a bit looser still. So is there any reason why you couldn't do this with a toyota diff?

Put a KAAZ in the 33.. u will never look back

crankycruiser wrote:

Zookified wrote:I'm watching this thread to as my hilux lsd is absolutely useless.

I have a r33 for my road car that has a lsd that is getting on a bit aswell. I have seen articles on the net about shimming it out. Through trial and error with shims you can make it tight as or a bit looser still. So is there any reason why you couldn't do this with a toyota diff?

Put a KAAZ in the 33.. u will never look back

Wish they made a kaaz for mine then i might change

For the price of one of those you would have change left over from an ARB.

Basically i believe they are poorly designed, there is a spring in the centre of the LSD centre that puts the preload on the clutch washers is not hard strong enough.. This is what makes it 'tighter' and makes it work better....

To overcome this you have to shim evenly the out side of the clutch washers which compressors the spring, thus putting more preload on the spring and making it better andd takes more pressure to make it slip.

I have a couple of pics if you want to have a look at them, but the pics are pretty average as they were taken a while ago on a crappy camera, but arn't too bad.

They are very easy to pull apart and shim, but there are a few things you need to watch or be careful of when pulling it apart.

To give you an idea of how bad designed they are my toyota hilux lsd took 1.3mm either side of the lsd to make it work. My mates nissan lsd took .20 mm to do the same thing (.40 was fully locked up)

As said if you are going out and spinning the wheels all the time (circle work ) then it will just wear out and you'll need to re shim it again.. but should last a fair time. And obviosly the bigger the tyres the more you need to tighten the lsd up to work (standard they prob work good with 28's )

Brad

SIMMO84 wrote:

beinthemud wrote:what did you do just guess 3-4mm shims no wonder it didn't work i guess thats why lsd have a bad name cause of people doing it half a55ed ,Mate do what ever

Nope thats the biggest I could fit in with a 60T press. Was an old anchor pin washer off truck brakes before I got it machined to the right dimensions.

Ok mate you say there bad cool ,I had mine made buy a guy who listened to what i wanted and what abuse it was going to get , he does diffs for a living ,It sound like you guessed where as he made and remade mine so ill go with how mine works because i have never seen yours
At the end of the day if flys diff hasent collapsed then getting it shimmed and maybe an extra clutch pack id the cheapest option.
Other wise just air lock the rear as i wouldn't waste my time doing anything else (front being different)

You were right with the spring setting the preload. BUT the spring tension has nothing to do with it when its needed. Its the thrust on the planetry gears that is supposed to load up the clutch packs. It works great when 2 wheels have roughly the same traction but as soon as there is a major difference in traction, all thrust on the planetrys is lost. This is why shimming them up is a waste of time.

beinthemud wrote:

SIMMO84 wrote:

beinthemud wrote:what did you do just guess 3-4mm shims no wonder it didn't work i guess thats why lsd have a bad name cause of people doing it half a55ed ,Mate do what ever

Nope thats the biggest I could fit in with a 60T press. Was an old anchor pin washer off truck brakes before I got it machined to the right dimensions.

Ok mate you say there bad cool ,I had mine made buy a guy who listened to what i wanted and what abuse it was going to get , he does diffs for a living ,It sound like you guessed where as he made and remade mine so ill go with how mine works because i have never seen yours
At the end of the day if flys diff hasent collapsed then getting it shimmed and maybe an extra clutch pack id the cheapest option.
Other wise just air lock the rear as i wouldn't waste my time doing anything else (front being different)

Extra clutch packs will work far better than shimming.

beinthemud wrote:Yeah mate first anyone who says its shiiit go buy a nissan.
second get it rebuilt you can add an extra clutch packs on each side .The biggest modification is to get it built using the crush tubes then they strip it again measure the crush tubes and get shims made for it .Doing this does a couple of things helps it lock better and not wear bearings. basic maintenace helps like oil changes usually after any water use (just to be safe) I find using a heavey duty oil stabaliser helps.
Ash diffs in melbourne did mine for $450 i think his dad taught him ,He learn't building v8 super car diffs when they were real cars.
Mines in i don't hear a peep out of it till it locks .

You just put a shim between the out side of the lsd housing and the last/outside lsd... Use steel shims when you can... they dont compress/deform as much under the pressure (i tried plastic shim material. Just guess a shim bolt the lsd carrier together, place in a vice, put either axle in and spin them in opposite direction to see how much friction it has... just keep shimming till you are happy.. (mine was great with 1.3mm)

You dont need to check the oil every time you drive through water.... this is just a waste of time and creates alot of work for no reason... But instead fit a set of diff breathers i just used fuel line, brass barb fittings and a cheap clear fuel filter at the top of engine bay... easy

Use a good quality LSD oil i used Castrol LSX 90 you can get a thicker lsd oil in 140 weight if you want...

Personally i cant see the value in paying $450 for some one to do this, although it works good when shimmed, it is still only a lsd and doess not work like a lokker.. if you cant do the shimming youself, buy a lokker... money better spent.

brad