Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just had a call from my ARB dealer who says that ARB have quarantined all scheduled locker installs for the front locker.

Apparantly they tried to install one in an NM in Melb yesterday & found that the spline count on the NMs is not 28!!!. Thye must have changed splines for the NMS cos I know that the NH & NK are 28 plinesd. I hope the NL is a 28 spliner!!!!

Damn,

I'll try to talk to Greg Milton when he gets back from lunch today.

keep ya posed.

Ok, managed to speak to Greg Milton at ARB.

The problem is not with the splining but rather the way that the final mass produced product is assembled. ARB are not happy with the final mass produced product & only managed to notice this when trying to fit the unit back into an NM.

Bottom line he says is that it is easily fixed & will delay fitting by only about 2 weeks he thinks.

All units so far sent to dealer will be recalled.

let keep everything crossed.

Boy Ian, that would have been 2 years of research down the gurgler if the spline count was different.
We know that it is not as Detroit lockers have been fitted from NH to NM's no problems.
The 8" diff centre is also the same part no for each model.
Glad to hear it is in the manufacturing of the product and not incompatibility because a lot of us who worked on this would be absolutely gobsmacked.

Frank.

Yeah Frank,

I was pretty worried for a while but it looks like not a big drama

cheers

Ian,

The WA ARB guys said it was a clearance problem with the side gears??

Thrust tolerances maybe

hope they sort it soon or I'll have to change my signature again!!

Ado

Unfortunately the problem is a bit more complicated than first thought.
Basically the axles won't fit into the side gears.
I've been asked to supply a front CV/axle for checking.
The side gear splines were manufactured to the measurements that were supplied by Mitsubishi.
They are 28 spline alright but the diameter is too small, the axles will go in if tapped with a hammer but getting them out again will be a big problem.
Basically all the side gears from the first batch (150 units) have to be reworked
I won't go into the details of why it happened but the problem will be rectified.
Patience guys, believe me it will be worth the wait

Bitsa,

So they don't have to rework te whole diff just the side gears?

Ado

Yes thats correct but about half of the batch have to be dissassembled first to get the side gears out before they can be reworked.

A question for the Guru's (probably Frank):

How many Pajero models have the 8" front diff that the ARB Locker fits into?

ie., what engine and transmission combinations - from Gen 1 (especially as I have one)
Thanks,
Sean.

A question for the Guru's (probably Frank):

How many Pajero models have the 8" front diff that the ARB Locker fits into?

ie., what engine and transmission combinations - from Gen 1 (especially as I have one)
Thanks,
Sean.

All of the genI 3.0 rigs had the 8 inch, but I dont know about the diesels we didnt get those.

The genI's were a low pinion design.

The genII 3.0 automatics had a 7.25 inch diff.
The genII 3.0 manuals had the 8 inch in a high pinion design.

Frank can fill you in on the 3.5 and the diesels hopefully.

Woohooo,

The 3.5l V6 8" front locker from ARB has been sorted , I paid for mine yesterday, pick up next week and installation the week after - hopefully

How much would you expect to pay to get the locker installed!!

ARB reckon about $400 based on IFS hilux price

Ado

Yeah I'm pretty sure only the Gen 1 3.0 V6 (88-91) will have the 8" front diff in low pinion format. Everything else Gen 1 will have the smaller front diff that unfortunately the new ARB locker won't fit.
But you can easily upgrade to the V6 8" front diff and CV's (all direct bolt in stuff) then fit the locker. You will end up with a much stronger (and locked) front end

Ado,

well thats good news, funny I was just in at our local ARB today & asked if there was any news, they said no. So hopefully mine is back on its way to the dealer.

they quoted me $400 for install plus about $400 for compressor , all up about $2k.

cheers

I spoke to Mark Hardman the other day and the already assembled units (about 50) have been reworked so they should start to make their way to the dealers where the orders have been placed. He is working through the other 100 sets now and should be finished a few days.
ARB have my axle to use as quality control so every locker side gear will be penetrated by my shaft

mate I hope your shaft is up to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Frank

what do you call a 8", 7.5" or 9" diff. Is this the diameter of the housing or the gear. What do you call a low and high pinion design?

Wolf

Wolfe, we are refering to the diameter of the crownwheel.
There are 2 versions of the front diff a low pinion (Gen 1) and the high pinion (Gen 2).
Basically the diff centres are the same but the diff housing and crownwheel & pinion design are different.
A low pinion design has the pinion gear contacting the crownwheel down low and is of a more standard gear cut. A high pinion design has the pinion in a much higher position (about 3") ie - the front propshaft sits higher.
The high pinion crownwheel & pinion has a reverse helix gearcut making it stronger in the forward direction than a low pinion design. In reverse though they are slightly weaker.

Hi Frank,

thanks for your quick answer. Can you definatly identify my frontdiff if I send a pic and a view data (housing diameter, diameter of crowngear. Are there different shafts fitting the centerdiff?
Do you know the wide of the chain of your t-case?

wolf

Below is a picture of a Gen 2 7.25" versus a 8" front diff in the high pinion design (Gen 2). You can see how the propshaft will sit higher giving more ground clearance.
Yes measure the diameter of your crownwheel and take a pic of the housing and I can ID it for you. The propshafts will vary mainly between the auto and 5sp versions.

Hi Frank


thanks for the pic. I just measuserd the crownweehl iit has a diameter of around 178mm so I guess it is 7.25" type. The propshaft is approximitlly 70mm from the bottom of the housing. The pics I willsend you tomorrow. After all that oil at the hands I could i realised that I forgot my camera at home.

Wolf

G'Day Frank,
Is it just the camera angle or are there some easily mearsured differences in the physical dimensions of the two housings. From your picture I would expect that the lower housing is the 8". If so it looks like the side to side distance across the housings is noticeably different - for the two faces that the axle tubes bolt on to. Can this be one way of checking diff size without having to measure the crownwheel?
Cheers,
Sean.

Hi Frank

how much is a ARB frontllocker in Australia?
I Just talked to Offrotec to get a price for a frontlocker. Its a german manufactorer locatet next to Stuttgart. They can provide lockers for any kind of 4x4 front or rear. They use a vakuumcylinder or an e-drive to lock. MAybe it is intresting for those guys with exotic cars or diffs. The cost for a locker equal if front or rear is 1200€ with all the additional equipement (switches, valves, tubes etc.) . Maybe I´ll order one but without that vakuum stuff. Instead of vakuum I´ll use compressed air and a normal pneumatikcalinder cause I my delica is already equiped with a ARB locker at the rear.

Here is the link http://www.offrotec.de (press "Produkte". The lockers are very strong and reliable and also testet in several trophys.

Wolf

Wolfe, I think they are around the $1200 Aus mark.
I think that company was approached by some guys from Trail Talk a while ago but they said they needed an order of 20 units minimum to manufacture as they don't have them in stock ?? Is this true ??

Hi Frank,

no they also produce single lockers. Klaus got a rear and a frontlolcker for his Hyundai Galopper (similar to Gen I). If you want it assembled it in a 4x4 they never did before they need a round 3 weeks to produce it .
The reason for checking my front diff is that I want to decide to assemble a ARB or an offrotec. If I would have to change the frontdiff to aasemble an ARB it makes no sense. USed spareparts for Monteros are very rare in Germany cause maney of the older car go to the eastern markets. If the sceduled ARB will not fit to my Frontdiff I´ll take an offrotec. I would prever a ARB cousei I also have one and it is very reliable and it cost less than.
Please have a lockk at the picks to identify the type

Here are few pic of the offretec assembled in a Galopper http://www.4x4travel.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2848

wolf

Sorry Wolfe it looks like you have the 7.25" low pinion front diff which the ARB front airlocker will not fit
Later model Delica's have the larger 8" front diff with the 2.8 TDI engine which the new locker will fit.

Hi Frank

thanks for the identifaction.
Are you 100 % shure that the new Frontlocker won´t fit?.
If there where only a few smaler modification to fit it to 7.25" diff ic ould do it by my self. Therefore I need would need a few drawings of the locker to comparte it with the open diff of my delica. Is there anyone out there to do a few sketches of the locker. What I need is the diameter of that part where the bearings are asembled, splinediameter and number of splines.
Diameter of that part wher the crownwhell will be asembled, totale wide.

wolf

Sorry Wolfe there is no way an 8" centre will fit into a 7.25" housing it is just physically too big.
If you can find the bigger diff at a wreckers yard and do a conversion ??

Hi Frank,

is the new ARB frontlocker available for all kind of 8" Diffs including those vakuumlocked automatikhubs?. I am very much intrested in those 8"diffs types with vakuum locked automatikhubs. But as I told you there are just a few wreckers selling used parts of the Mitsubishi 4x4´s. Especially parts of the generation 2 Monteros are very rare. And even if you find parts they are very expensive. If I could find a 8"vak diff to a moderate price it is an alternative to the offtrotec locker which is more expensive. one thing I have to check is if there is enough room to assemble the bigger housing (but i think it is only a few millimeters of diameter. In this case could you recomend a dealer shipping to germany?

Wolf

Hi Frank,

I just assembled the Offrotec Locker in my Delica. If anyone is interested I can send some pics.

wolf