Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just doing a bit of research and sussing out for future as money doesnt allow me to go ahead yet... But given a few months it will defiantely, its just that coil overs and twin lockers are soaking up my money at the moment, so stuck with terrible gearing... DOH!!!

Looking at putting Twin transfers into my 99 lux which is fitted with a 3RZ-FE... However given that it is fitted with a chain drive transfer case it will need to be replaced with a gear drive case...

So just curios on gearbox options... My initial thoughts were just throw in the G52 that comes with gear drive case, however doing searches has led me to believe strength might be an issue... Opinions??

Next option was maybe keep original box and use adaptor from Marks 4x4 to fit Gear drive t-case to my box?? Opinions???

Or other options?? R150f? Dyna box? etc etc

Also with any of these options or anything else you may suggest, do you know of any problems with fitting? do they bolt straight up? new bellhousings or adaptors needed?? and if so where do you get them?? $$$?? etc etc

Also, i would really like to stay manual, not only for personal preferance, but i do occasionally tow my dirt bikes with this ute and also do a fair wack of highway driving so everything about this car has to be road driveable as well as capable

All advice, opinions greatly appreciated..

Cheers Robbo

Hey mate, correct me if I am wrong your vehicle from factory has a W56 gearbox fitted to it. Confirmed this on this site:
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/q.html
based on 99 model Australian Hilux with 3RZ.

Then this site says you have a gear driven transfer case based on W56.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/tech/trans ... atio-chart

Only the R series gearboxes got the chain driven one, if you have an R series you will need this:
http://locktup4x4.com.au/hilux-solid-fr ... r-311.html

Some pictures here if you want to double check with whats on your vehicle, also read VIN plate and workshop manual.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... 373305.php

Just a little bit of research, kept me occupied for awhile.

Struddy

some of what strudy has said is correct, the 3rz hilux comes with the w56 box not the g52 and im led to beleive its about 30% stronger still not up to the r150f strength but possibly strong enough for what most people need, for some strange reason the 3ltr has the gear driven case and the 3rz has the chain drive case why they did this is beyone me but its not all bad news marlin crawler to a crawlbox which goes between the gearbox and transfer case and comes in 2 different ratios standard and 4.7

hope that helps

cheers

matt

I busted a turbo transmission in 2 year, and Im going on 7 years with a W56. I am a huge fan of the W56, strong and very easy to find "around my parts anyways". Me nor any of the guys I wheel with have had much trouble with there W56's. We usually break t-cases. I also put a 3RZ with a Marlin W56HD into the build I just finished.

Jason

The G52 behind a 3RZ will be reliable. 83lux on here has broken everything, axles, diffs, t-cases, engines never a G52 on 38.5" Boggers.

Hey thanks guys thats tops....

So im thinking that probably the easiest and most cost effective way, given that they are already attached, and readily available, would be a G52 and twin cases with an adaptor from a place such as locktup??

As all i should need is the twins adaptor at $469... G52 bolts straight upto 3RZ and all parts needed for twins are in the supplied kit from locktup... Is that about right??

However given that i already have a W56 in my lux already, and considering they are as good as they say... Do you think it is worth the extra $525 for the Chain to Gear drive adaptor???

As bubs said if Scotty cant break it, and ive seen where that boy takes his truck, theres probably not much chance i'll break it either... But with a recoomendation of 7years from Jason, its pretty hard to deny the W56 either...

Honest opinions, is it worth the $994 price tag as oposed to the $469 price tag (granted i need to track down G52 as well so price gap wont be SO big)

mate its really up to you personally im looking into the marlin crawlbox mainly due to spares that i allready have hopefully ill have a price for it landed in aus during the week

go the marlin crawler...i have with the 4.7's and its awesome......i can use the standard transfer by itself, the 4.7 crawler transfer by itself or both combined for superlow range.

bubs wrote:The G52 behind a 3RZ will be reliable. 83lux on here has broken everything, axles, diffs, t-cases, engines never a G52 on 38.5" Boggers.

I've broken everything except my W56 and engine.

Dual t-cases with twin sticks is a great way to go.

Jason

locktup4x4 wrote:

bubs wrote:The G52 behind a 3RZ will be reliable. 83lux on here has broken everything, axles, diffs, t-cases, engines never a G52 on 38.5" Boggers.

I've broken everything except my W56 and engine.

Dual t-cases with twin sticks is a great way to go.

Jason

Scott win's! He broke the Engine

To use an R series box u will need to source a 2TR-FE bellhousing as they share the 3RZ block and run a R150 stock.

In a NA application the G52 or W56 will be ample, both boxes come with either geardrives or chaindrives depending on model. I would use a G52 just for the fact that there more common then the older W56 geardrives.

I would use two topshifting reduction boxes also as it keeps the sticks away from the main shifter.

I currently have R150f with dual topshifts, 23 spline inputs and 4.7's in rearcase all from locktup and it is good gear and works great.

P.S I hav a AA chain to gear adaptor that will work on ur current W56 if ur interested.

WICKED wrote:
Scott win's! He broke the Engine

OK I just went out and blew my motor and the dome light. If you aint first your last

Jason

Silly question, what's the easiest way to distinguish between "W" and "R" series boxes. I assume I had the earlier R series box in my lux originally because we shredded 4 of them in 3 months .
My Gearbox guy built me up one out of an import. never broke it yet, but have no idea what it actually is

Ln130 surfs (not 4runners), VZn130 and KZN130 as well as various other models with these engiens ahv either R150f or R151f gearboxes, they are considerably larger then the W56 whch came in early surfs and 3rz luxes

WICKED wrote: Scott win's! He broke the Engine

I think holding it on the rev limiter while you are on your roof will fark any engine.

sloshy wrote:

WICKED wrote: Scott win's! He broke the Engine

I think holding it on the rev limiter while you are on your roof will fark any engine.

I put him there I WIN !!!!!

I was talking to Cris from Locktup as I was worried about breaking the input into the 2nd transfer case. You can go the 23 spline input from the chain driven but have to order the dual adaptor to suit 23 spline input. I would go this track if ya haven't bought the dual adaptor yet.

Not going to get one as I haven't broken one yet, but when I do I will look into it.

In my opinion I would run the g52 with dual t-cases 23 spline input into the 2nd case due to the cost of a 23 spline input gear for the t-case you may as well install 4.7s in the 2nd case.

Also do not forget your longfield output shaft all you'll be kicking your self when the stocker let's go, it will only be a matter of time until it does.

Willy Hilux wrote:Not going to get one as I haven't broken one yet, but when I do I will look into it.

Dont select low in the front box and high in the rear box and you should never need to upgrade this. The only time i have seen failures of the input into the second case is because someone tries to do 2wd rear burns with the front in low and the rear in high or because they shift the front into low while the rear is still in high and get on it.

Just remember if your 4wding and you only need single low use the rear box not the front. Only select low in the front box when you want double low.

Ive been told the opposite, no disrespect guys, but Ive been told thats its better to put the front crawler case (4.7's) in LOW and the rear factory case in 4HIGH and then just shift through the auto through the gears for whatever speed you need/require....

I was doing this on the weekend in the hilux and it works fantastically for me.

I'd only need to put the factory (REAR) case into low range with the front Crawler case in low range aswell if I was going to be crawling rocks with it, but fo the majorty of the rutted and hilly tracks we do the former works best.

mmaaxx wrote:Ive been told the opposite, no disrespect guys, but Ive been told thats its better to put the front crawler case (4.7's) in LOW and the rear factory case in 4HIGH and then just shift through the auto through the gears for whatever speed you need/require....

I was doing this on the weekend in the hilux and it works fantastically for me.

I'd only need to put the factory (REAR) case into low range with the front Crawler case in low range aswell if I was going to be crawling rocks with it, but fo the majorty of the rutted and hilly tracks we do the former works best.

Max you are right.

The thought some time ago that the input shaft on these newer gear driven case's are just as weak as the input shaft on the gear driven case's has been around for awhile and nothing could be further from the truth.

These newer chain case's were designed and built for both a heavier vehicle and a vehicle with a stronger motor. And for those that say the chains are weak on these newer case's I'd love to see the pile of chain case's that have blown either a planetary gear or the chain. I myself have never seen a chain case break except for when some landed on a rock and cracked the housing, but I can show you a pile of gear case's including a couple of Atlas's that have taking a dump.

I've been running around with my front case in low and my rear case in Hi now for over three years without one problem to either the front or the rear case and I have a 6,000lb truck with Dana 60's front and rear and sitting on 40" tires. And I'm not the only one who rides around all day with their front case in low and rear case in hi. We all pretty much do it here in the states without failure.

The thought of not putting the front case in low while the rear case is in hi just doesn't even make sense. The strongest gear your going to have is the hi gear since it's smaller and the amount of torque that is applied to the rear case from the front case is going to be the same whether the rear case is in hi or low.

So max your going to be fine. Run around with your front case in low and your rear in hi. That chain case you have is one of the strongest case's Toyota has ever made and your crawler box is the strongest Toyota crawler on the planet. Your going to fine Dude. Wheel responsibly and just remember your out there to have fun. Your not in competition.

Here is my 6,000lb truck with the stock chain case and 4.70 gears in the front case crawling along with both case's in low.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiGNkBG6 ... re=related

I can't say that you guys are correct. I'm with Ruff. You are putting crawler gears in the front box which is putting roughly 4 times the torque load on the second transfer input shaft than what it was built for.

With a standard transfer up front and crawler gears in the rear you are only putting twice the torque on the second transfer input shaft.

So I know what I would be doing. But I think running stock twins with cromo output is heaps with the 3RZ motor.

Remember the transfer input comes straight from the gearbox and this is what is was built for. Not having reduction in front of it as well.

Torque works down the drive train. So up front is effecting down to the rear.

a1 mech wrote: In a NA application the G52 or W56 will be ample, both boxes come with either geardrives or chaindrives depending on model. I would use a G52 just for the fact that there more common then the older W56 geardrives.

Just to confirm a W56 could have came out with either a chain or gear drive fitted to the back of it. Does this mean they can be swapped over without an adapter or are the extension housings different.

Struddy

Chain drive has 23 spline input
Gear drive has 21 spline input

As far as i know, in AUS dont know about the U.S, all w56s came were chain driven. I could be wrong though.

berad wrote:As far as i know, in AUS dont know about the U.S, all w56s came were chain driven. I could be wrong though.

aus delivered yes, there is a hand full of early import surfs with W56's and gear driven t-cases

awsumdc wrote:

mmaaxx wrote:Ive been told the opposite, no disrespect guys, but Ive been told thats its better to put the front crawler case (4.7's) in LOW and the rear factory case in 4HIGH and then just shift through the auto through the gears for whatever speed you need/require....

I was doing this on the weekend in the hilux and it works fantastically for me.

I'd only need to put the factory (REAR) case into low range with the front Crawler case in low range aswell if I was going to be crawling rocks with it, but fo the majorty of the rutted and hilly tracks we do the former works best.

Max you are right.

The thought some time ago that the input shaft on these newer gear driven case's are just as weak as the input shaft on the gear driven case's has been around for awhile and nothing could be further from the truth.

These newer chain case's were designed and built for both a heavier vehicle and a vehicle with a stronger motor. And for those that say the chains are weak on these newer case's I'd love to see the pile of chain case's that have blown either a planetary gear or the chain. I myself have never seen a chain case break except for when some landed on a rock and cracked the housing, but I can show you a pile of gear case's including a couple of Atlas's that have taking a dump.

I've been running around with my front case in low and my rear case in Hi now for over three years without one problem to either the front or the rear case and I have a 6,000lb truck with Dana 60's front and rear and sitting on 40" tires. And I'm not the only one who rides around all day with their front case in low and rear case in hi. We all pretty much do it here in the states without failure.

The thought of not putting the front case in low while the rear case is in hi just doesn't even make sense. The strongest gear your going to have is the hi gear since it's smaller and the amount of torque that is applied to the rear case from the front case is going to be the same whether the rear case is in hi or low.

So max your going to be fine. Run around with your front case in low and your rear in hi. That chain case you have is one of the strongest case's Toyota has ever made and your crawler box is the strongest Toyota crawler on the planet. Your going to fine Dude. Wheel responsibly and just remember your out there to have fun. Your not in competition.

Here is my 6,000lb truck with the stock chain case and 4.70 gears in the front case crawling along with both case's in low.

There seams to be a lot of confusion in this thread. Most are talking stock 21 spline gear driven transfers not Chain drive transfers. Your currently talking the 23 spline chain drive case. HUGE difference in strength.

Struddy wrote:

a1 mech wrote: In a NA application the G52 or W56 will be ample, both boxes come with either geardrives or chaindrives depending on model. I would use a G52 just for the fact that there more common then the older W56 geardrives.

Just to confirm a W56 could have came out with either a chain or gear drive fitted to the back of it. Does this mean they can be swapped over without an adapter or are the extension housings different.

Struddy

Unless you have an early imported first gen 4 runner/surf your going to have a chain drive transfer.

Struddy wrote:Hey mate, correct me if I am wrong your vehicle from factory has a W56 gearbox fitted to it. Confirmed this on this site:
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/q.html
based on 99 model Australian Hilux with 3RZ.

Then this site says you have a gear driven transfer case based on W56.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/tech/trans ... atio-chart

Only the R series gearboxes got the chain driven one, if you have an R series you will need this:
http://locktup4x4.com.au/hilux-solid-fr ... r-311.html

Some pictures here if you want to double check with whats on your vehicle, also read VIN plate and workshop manual.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... 373305.php

Just a little bit of research, kept me occupied for awhile.

Struddy

You cant confidently use marlin crawler to compare Aus vehicles. They rarely line up.

All and i mean absolutly all post 97 Australian delivered Hilux's came with chain drive transfers.

ok going off the factory toyota chassis manual all 97 on hilux's have the w56 box the 3ltr has a gear drive and the 3rz is chain easiest way to tell is the rear of the transfer case where the speedo cable goes as most of you will know there is a difference in bolts and the shape of the housing im going to try have a look at some more during the week to check for myself but so far off the few i have checked the above information is correct.