Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Im building a toy/ winch challenge truck. Basic plans are auto, 35 inch tryes (maybe bigger later on) I was initally going for a v6 but I am now keen for a V8, noise, power, w@nk factor. Some people have said the V6 is a better option as they're a quicker reving motor?
My first idea was a 5.0 liter (price) but the toyota 4.0l sounds the goods aswell. I already have an ecotec v6 that was destined for the lux. The trucks that I will be competing with are GEN 3 pootrols and Id like to give them a decent run aswell. I have searched and most of the topics turn into a 3rz argument so lets not let this one turn into that. So what is a better option keeping in mind I want this thing to be quick?

I'd go the Gen 2 or 3 as they are pretty cheap now and make great power out of the box or you could go 5ltr with some mods (they perform well when worked)

Supercharged Ecotec with the boost upped abit. The V6 will fit nicer than the 8 will, The 6 will cost less in rego and prollie insurence as well and as far as power goes I have a VT SS with the LS1 and a mate had a XU6 running 10psi down at the drags our times were pretty even, he'd get me off the line and I'd reel him in at the top end.

Radiator was going in the back either way( V6 or not), Was thinking 5.0 as theyre easy and cheap to build quick. Is there bigger water pumps t osuit these motors instead of using an electric water pump aswell?

Go for a V8 just to ensure there is ample grunt down low.

I haven't driven a V6 commo conversion but can't remember hearing anything too good about them, and the SC V6s tend to overheat I here.

Cheers

go 1j thay r cheap, or 2j that wont be slow

my 2c if your going to build one build one that rumbles.
go a V8.
i went a 304 holden V8 in a crawling truck. but if i was doing it now, i would go an LS1. they are cheap, lots of parts and upgrades for them.
and everyone wants more inches!
i would think if you went the V6 you would always look back and think... for the extra grand or so why didnt i go a V8.
my 2c.

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote:my 2c if your going to build one build one that rumbles.
go a V8.
i went a 304 holden V8 in a crawling truck. but if i was doing it now, i would go an LS1. they are cheap, lots of parts and upgrades for them.
and everyone wants more inches!
i would think if you went the V6 you would always look back and think... for the extra grand or so why didnt i go a V8.
my 2c.

Thats is what I have been thinking, I only want to build it once so I want to be happy with it. Thanks for the replies, looking into a gen 3 now

A 5ltr with a 355 stoker has massive grunt down low, more that a 5.7... But a twin turbo buick v6 would sound sweet and rev, and with looow difgears would be just as sweet. Auto or man cog swaper is a factor too. I'm having the same problem but I also have a 400HP 308 built for gas in my shed that aint going to be used for while

just re read and what auto???? 350, 400? I have see sport shift auto kitted out ( very$$$ ) with lock up on a switch for down hill and other 4x4 goodness?

an ls1 is all good and a great motor but what bout the rest of the drivetrain no good having a heap of power if all its gunna do is destroy R&P's, CV's ect,but definently go the v8 if only for the sound lol.

I honestly put little thought into the auto and was just going to use what was standard behind the motor I was going to use. DRiveline srength I have been thinking about and it seems that you can get stronger replacements for everything that breaks but I am open to ideas, cruiser/ patrol axles?

i know everyone is saying go V8 and i know this is kinda pointless cause it sounds like your going that way anyway...

But seriously dude, dont under-estimate the supercharged V6, whatever you do if you want power DO NOT supercharge the standard ecotec, they cant handle it and it worries me everytime i see an ecotec with forced induction, the factory blown V6 is a different motor COMPLETELY!!! and they are seriously built from the factory with six bolt mains, a roller camshaft, semi forged bottom end, larger throttle body, roller rockers etc etc...

Do your research mate, there's guys all over the world running these things with stock internals, just up the boost via a pulley upgrade, intercool it, exhaust and computer and not much else (little things aside to do properly ie: rockers or cam, springs etc but not much) and they are running 9's down the 1/4 mile and then turning around and driving to work... Not to mention the size and weight difference between a L67 and a LS1

Use this for example http://www.3800pro.com/forum/

anyway man, like i said, probably pointless, but worth considering

Robbo

simmo if you really are keen on a 304 i know where a vn is with auto you could probably get the whole car for $1000 i had a look into it before buying a turbo for my 3rz but i just dont think its worth the hassle if you want it engineered in queensland, if your not worried about getting it engineered than go a ls2 or ls3 from what iv heard about the toyota v8 they make good power and love to rev out but there isnt alot of torque off the line.

oh yeah and thats the other thing that i just remembered after reading that last post about lack of torque that i forgot to write... Blown V6... = TORQUE HEAVEN!!!! HUGE torque down low, exactly what you want in 4wding

have seen a few of the well built cars down the drag strip all staged up, foot flat, christmas tree goes green, car lunges forward and then BANG!!! just stops dead.... something broken, broken axle or tranny or something... which is really quite common until its all been strengthened.... but in the cars that are beefed up and strenghtened, no such thing as breaking, just wheelstands, or if not that, usually massive lack of traction and just fryin they tyres

those M90's especially when boosted mate, give you TONS of grunt down low... or you could do what i did and fit an M112

man i broke engine mounts, tranny mounts, diffs, axles, twisted driveshafts... you name it and pretty good chance i stuffed it once i had that thing boosted... AND i drove it to work every single day... you name many motors that can do that and still be pleasant on the road with good fuel economy and still fly under the radar of police that can be done so cheaply and im all ears

Elmo wrote:oh yeah and thats the other thing that i just remembered after reading that last post about lack of torque that i forgot to write... Blown V6... = TORQUE HEAVEN!!!! HUGE torque down low, exactly what you want in 4wding

have seen a few of the well built cars down the drag strip all staged up, foot flat, christmas tree goes green, car lunges forward and then BANG!!! just stops dead.... something broken, broken axle or tranny or something... which is really quite common until its all been strengthened.... but in the cars that are beefed up and strenghtened, no such thing as breaking, just wheelstands, or if not that, usually massive lack of traction and just fryin they tyres

those M90's especially when boosted mate, give you TONS of grunt down low... or you could do what i did and fit an M112

man i broke engine mounts, tranny mounts, diffs, axles, twisted driveshafts... you name it and pretty good chance i stuffed it once i had that thing boosted... AND i drove it to work every single day... you name many motors that can do that and still be pleasant on the road with good fuel economy and still fly under the radar of police that can be done so cheaply and im all ears

I didnt understand most of that, but the grasp was you had a blown v6 in a commodore im guessing? I've owned one too in a vs exec. was ok boosted and what not. But an LS1 makes more power out the box and with little mods shit's all over the v6 and will fly under the radar.

mmm sorta... the jist of it basically was that im sick of hearing you need to go V8 to get grunt, i was just mentioning the damage as a bit of a clue to the power you can get from so little work... a boosted L67 will out power and out torque a LS1, be lighter, and shorter and quieter...

yes a LS1 will go under the radar of police in a commodore, but not in a hilux, even with a stockish exhaust they'll hear the V8 a mile away... With the sound of a V6 they wont even look twice

Plus being shorter you can keep the radiator under the bonnet and attract even less attention from the police

What about an alloytec 3.6 V6, They are cheap as (about $1500 for full conversion), 170 or 190kw, they will all be pretty low km engines, they are light and small. If you get one with the 4 speed auto you can use the marks adapters kit to the transfer case.

The electrics are a bit complicated but there are soloutions for that.

Only downside would be low end torque compared to the V8.

Steve

Awesome suggestion mate, Alloytec's are a top motor, especially the gruntier version as is its actually not so much just a spec'd up base model, there is a number of signifigant changes internally between the two and have also been proven to handle extra power if you so desire

Electrics be no prob for you Steve, i've heard stories about your quality and thorougness of work

6 bolt main SC v6 como motor, that is intense.

You don't even need a v6 to get grunt .

3rzfe+t, 1050ft lbs of torque on the rollers and 300rwhp

But different horses for courses, if your into v6 or v8, id run the 8.

IF your seriously building a winch truck, i doubt keeping the police from defecting you is high on the agenda. The cage and suspension alone would draw more attention, driving a winch truck to and from events would also be few and far between.

i agree with berad

if it is between v6 or v8 then i would run a 304, cheap, they fit in easy enough, and with a rad in the back even better.

ls1 that ive been in seem to not have as much off the line pull compaird to a 304! but rev out a lot better.

any v6 lux ive been in has no down low pull with 35s unless it in low range all the time. and they seem to get hot cos ur on the loud pedal all the time to get them moving.

i would sugest runing a manual using the v6 4 runner box over a auto if it was me.

dan

Thanks for all the replies. The rig will never be driven on the road so thats one problem solved. I am leaning towards a 5.0 at the moment with an auto. Can always stroke it later down the track if I want more ponies.

mate ill send you the number of the bloke who had the vn for sale he wanted 1000 like a month ago pretty sure its still for sale and he will probably let it go cheaper

sounds good, cheers.

finished my v6 conversion last week. bloody thing flys along plenty of grunt. great off the line. great motor down low. pulls well runs at norm temp(just under 100 to bout 107c) its normally aspirated. all this hoo haa bout power bloody hell if you got the right gearing you could sit in your car and peddle. the more work you do to a motor the quicker it wears out. and yeah there are some cheep mods for a 5L to get power but to get the real deal you got to spend the money my 5L used to slaughter 5.7 used to slaughter a lot of things. but then i had a series 1 vn v6 that used to give my vx ss 5.7 more then enough of a hard time. why waste the money, go the cheap v6 as a stocker there a great little power plant and with the right gearing for your intended purpose you shouldnt have any probs.

I'm not a mechanic but I would have thought 107 degrees would be considered hot? Not being smart at all, just curious.

deffinately cant beat the LS1!

yeah 107 is hot i wont deny that but when water is under preasure as in a cooling system in a car the temp that it boils at increases. at sea level water boils at 100 degrees. but if you go up the mountains it boils at a lower temp. so the less preasure the lower the boiling point.the more preasure the higher the boiling point.

If you even sort of want a V8 DON"T go a V6, you'll only wish you'd done the v8 1st off.
If your going rear radiator then the V8 is no harder to fit then a V6.