Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Can someone point me in right direction here....

My truck will soon run 80 series rear diff (which has centre offset to RHS) and Hilux transfer (output is in dead centre of truck). Will have new rear shaft made up to suit. The truck will also have approx 4- 5 inch suspension lift as well.

So with the tailshaft on this weird angle, is there a way to set it up to minimise vibration? I heard this topic may have been covered b4 but can't find it.

Cheers
Josh.

hey dude if ur tail shaft is offset to the left or right it will vibrate. as for angles try to keep ur flanges in line.

Why should it vibrate ?? from the people I know of that run off centre shafts most have not had trouble with excess vibration.
Make sure the pinion angle is set correctly and you should be good to go ..

If you stop and think about it the fact the pinion is not in line with the T\case is not an issue as it is only a matter of perspective.

It should be ok side to side as angles are same both ends in that plane.

Bazzle

Off set up or down is the same as side to side...it is of no consequence to a shaft spinning at that speed (as long as it is not too extreme). As mentioned above problems arise when there is misalignment with flanges at each end of the shaft.

Uni joints are not CVs hence the velocity as a vector actually varies across the angle...vibration occurs when the angle of exit does not balance (equal , counteract) the angle of the input...hence offset is ok as long as flanges are parallel...

That said, I have seen, and have used, plenty of shafts with non-parallel flanges with no vibration...sometimes it is just luck...

mine is offset (toy rear under a zuk)

it vibrates from round 15 to 25km but after that it is fine

i am thinkin of puttin in a standard tail shaft(runnin a dc shaft now)
just tio see if it will help any

[That said, I have seen, and have used, plenty of shafts with non-parallel flanges with no vibration...sometimes it is just luck...[/quote]

...and harmonics too..

As said by others, if pinion angle is ok it shouldnt vibrate. A mate of mine is running GQ diffs under his 75 with about 8" of lift. The cruiser out[put is offset and GQ rear diff is centre. The vibration he has is minimal, its that faint that it is hard to pick it has any vibration at all.

mudtoy wrote:Off set up or down is the same as side to side...it is of no consequence to a shaft spinning at that speed (as long as it is not too extreme). As mentioned above problems arise when there is misalignment with flanges at each end of the shaft.

Uni joints are not CVs hence the velocity as a vector actually varies across the angle...vibration occurs when the angle of exit does not balance (equal , counteract) the angle of the input...hence offset is ok as long as flanges are parallel...

That said, I have seen, and have used, plenty of shafts with non-parallel flanges with no vibration...sometimes it is just luck...

[Rant on]
Yeah, what he said. Just because the vibration isn't apparent, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The uni's aren't designed to transfer drive through 2 planes (Up/down & side/side), and they're gunna fail. If it's a street rig, I doubt you'll find an engineer to pass it. Ever see the results of a prop shaft failing at speed?
[Rant off]

Roktruk wrote:

mudtoy wrote:Off set up or down is the same as side to side...it is of no consequence to a shaft spinning at that speed (as long as it is not too extreme). As mentioned above problems arise when there is misalignment with flanges at each end of the shaft.

Uni joints are not CVs hence the velocity as a vector actually varies across the angle...vibration occurs when the angle of exit does not balance (equal , counteract) the angle of the input...hence offset is ok as long as flanges are parallel...

That said, I have seen, and have used, plenty of shafts with non-parallel flanges with no vibration...sometimes it is just luck...

[Rant on]
Yeah, what he said. Just because the vibration isn't apparent, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The uni's aren't designed to transfer drive through 2 planes (Up/down & side/side), and they're gunna fail. If it's a street rig, I doubt you'll find an engineer to pass it. Ever see the results of a prop shaft failing at speed?
[Rant off]

this doesnt really make sence.

if you think about basic geometry there is no difference to haveing any combination of side to side and up and down as from the universal perspective they still only have one angle, its just youve rotated the plane about the horizontal...

the problem as i understand it is when the input angle and output angle are not exactly the same, this makes sense since the universals are not a constant velocity system....

this would mean that the diff input and transfer case output should be 100% parallell. if this is correct then there should be no problem.

however as your suspension moves you are far less likely to be able to keep these two parallell than an inline system, hence vibration may accour?

Agree fully with you Shadow. No idea where you are coming from Roktruk. I have heard the front shaft on some Landrover Discoverys are set up very much like what I will be running, if they are constant 4wd then it shows that there is an engineerable solution.

I'll let you know what the engineer has to say when I find out.

Set up correctly it seems possible to eliminate the vibration, however when the vehicle is loaded, changing driveshaft angles may be the source of vibration as Shadow said.

http://www.ringpinion.com/

All your answers under here on Tech

bazzle

bazzle wrote:http://www.ringpinion.com/

All your answers under here on Tech

bazzle

from that site...


Note: If the vehicle has a differential pinion offset to the side from the center of the output shaft on the transmission or transfer case, the angles due to this offset will not cause vibration. This is because the pinion shaft and the output shaft are still parallel with respect to these side-to-side angles.

My truck will soon run 80 series rear diff (which has centre offset to RHS) and Hilux transfer (output is in dead centre of truck). Will have new rear shaft made up to suit. The truck will also have approx 4- 5 inch suspension lift as well.

It'll look awsome when it's finished. Can't wait 2 see it Looks good now btw

I'll let you know what the engineer has to say when I find out.


Which engineer are u getting it done through

Thanks James.

Engineer is Ray Cross at Lismore. Good bloke.....

Hi Ray if you are reading this.

slosh wrote:Thanks James.

Engineer is Ray Cross at Lismore. Good bloke.....

Hi Ray if you are reading this.

Ray engineered the coil conversion on the feroza

Can I buy ya coil conversion James???????? I want it, need it

AJFeroza wrote:Can I buy ya coil conversion James???????? I want it, need it

Tuff
Your not getting it

I'm gunna crawl into a corner now and CRY!!!

AJFeroza wrote:I'm gunna crawl into a corner now and CRY!!!

Shadow is on the right track here.
In my previous employment with Dana Spicer I had occasions to rectify vibration problems in Heavy trucks. Danas schooling on driveline alignment was always to work with the output flange of the gearbox and the input flange of the diff within 2 degrees of each other. the closer to zero the better. trucks for years have used wedges placed under the diff spring brackets to kick the diff flange angle into alingment.

As long as the two flanges stay within the limits it wont matter how much offset is on the tailshaft. previding the offset dosent exceed the working angle of the unijoint, this is why some vehicles use two tailshafts.

When the diff moves through its operating distants the flange should always move in a parallal to the gearbox flange the only time it wont is when it is effected by axle tramp or spring wind up,

hope this helps

Put dobbins Eng 100 series CV drive sharft on the sucker, No problems then with the bad vibe.

call him on (02)96094446

tell him Chad let you know

These sharfts are sick

www.dobbinengineering.com/

bazooked wrote:hey dude if ur tail shaft is offset to the left or right it will vibrate. as for angles try to keep ur flanges in line.

you my friend are very very stupid, and a little g a y!!

the unis are not alive, they do not know if they are not in line. they only vibrate if they are not in phase, if they are in phase there will be no vibes.

mudtoy wrote:[That said, I have seen, and have used, plenty of shafts with non-parallel flanges with no vibration...sometimes it is just luck...

...and harmonics too..[/quote]

nothing at all to do with luck mate... sorry!

Roktruk wrote:

mudtoy wrote:Off set up or down is the same as side to side...it is of no consequence to a shaft spinning at that speed (as long as it is not too extreme). As mentioned above problems arise when there is misalignment with flanges at each end of the shaft.

Uni joints are not CVs hence the velocity as a vector actually varies across the angle...vibration occurs when the angle of exit does not balance (equal , counteract) the angle of the input...hence offset is ok as long as flanges are parallel...

That said, I have seen, and have used, plenty of shafts with non-parallel flanges with no vibration...sometimes it is just luck...

[Rant on]
Yeah, what he said. Just because the vibration isn't apparent, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The uni's aren't designed to transfer drive through 2 planes (Up/down & side/side), and they're gunna fail. If it's a street rig, I doubt you'll find an engineer to pass it. Ever see the results of a prop shaft failing at speed?
[Rant off]

they are designed to run on any planes, if they are in phase they won't vibe. If you think about it, and as Sam has said a uni joint is not alive, it won't know if its on its side or upside down, if its in phase, its all good.

professor wrote:Put dobbins Eng 100 series CV drive sharft on the sucker, No problems then with the bad vibe.

call him on (02)96094446

tell him Chad let you know

These sharfts are sick

www.dobbinengineering.com/

there is a reason manufacturers do what they do. Don't get me wrong... the shaft looks unreal..

BUT
it has 50% more bolts holding it on, and 200% more moving parts at least. Thats a 250% more chance of something going wrong under your car.

the shaft looks unreal, but i bet its expensive.

bj on roids wrote:

professor wrote:Put dobbins Eng 100 series CV drive sharft on the sucker, No problems then with the bad vibe.

call him on (02)96094446

tell him Chad let you know

These sharfts are sick

www.dobbinengineering.com/

there is a reason manufacturers do what they do. Don't get me wrong... the shaft looks unreal..

BUT
it has 50% more bolts holding it on, and 200% more moving parts at least. Thats a 250% more chance of something going wrong under your car.

the shaft looks unreal, but i bet its expensive.

If you consider over 100 less needle rollers in the two cardinal joints(More moving parts in a cardinal joint than a CV)
and with this shaft you can carry a spare uni for the pinion shaft for when you beef a rock and shread the uni. Yes more bolts but who cares!
And for cost, go and get a quote for a normal drive shaft with cardinal joint new and then get the thing balanced and I bet you end up close to glens price of $850 per shaft

and besides Glen has been more helpfull than any drive shaft shop I ever had anything to do with, and you will find that he knows his sheat!

One thing I have noticed about most build ups, is that every one will try and do things on the cheep and it ends up costing bucket loads more in the end.!!! Do it right the first time spend a little more up front and you will find your rig alot more enjoyable in the bush than in the shed on blocks fixing a cheep bodgy shortcut you though would save you cash.

thats my opinion.

Chad

This is great TECH!!!

helps me heaps with my problem of no rockcrawler gears for MQ transfers.
I may go a straight out transfer over a offset one anyways!!!

screwy.