Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hello

Aside from me, has anyone else experienced hassles with the handbrakes on their Landcruisers (all models)?

I've had a Troopy, 80 Series DX (5 spd Diesel Poverty Pack) and 80 Series GXL (Auto TD) - all with non-existent handbrakes.

Affinity have done a quick scan on their records and noted greater numbers of handbrake 'events/incidents' involving landcruisers, and are looking to collate some evidence from others to approach Toyota.

Cheers.

I have a couple of Toyota's, none of which have had any issues I would consider Toyota's fault.


Vehicles are 73 x 2, 75, 80 and a 100.

All have perfectly fine operating handbrakes.

Perhaps it comes from a good maintenance history.

What issues are you actually having?

So no slippage? You don't have to chock wheels on slopes (or nudge against trees) to stop vehicle from running away?

You seem to be exeption rather than the rule.

Are you doing anything special to handbrake? Special pads? Different setting?

Cheers

mlowe76 wrote:I have a couple of Toyota's, none of which have had any issues I would consider Toyota's fault.


Vehicles are 73 x 2, 75, 80 and a 100.

All have perfectly fine operating handbrakes.

Perhaps it comes from a good maintenance history.
What issues are you actually having?

too right. I've had two 80s and a 60. the 80s handbrake works great. The 60 required more frequent adjustment, but still held the truck fine.

It should be common knowledge that you don't rely on the handbrake alone to hold the truck. The transmission should be in Park or in gear. I'm certain that any accident relating to a run away vehicle was negligence on the drivers behalf.

Also I don't know what toyota's recommended hand brake service interval is, but I do it every time i change a set of pads, front or rear. Since i'd be lucky to get 25k out of a set of front pads (auto) then i'd say i do it every 25k.

And frankly adjusting the disc/drum rear brake on a landcruiser is piss easy and almost idiot proof.

I've had 60, 100 and Surf.

All AWFUL

Toyota handbrakes are for decorative purposes only.

I've adjusted mine more times than I care to count, replaced shoes and disc/drum.

Too tight - rubs, heats, binds
Too loose - barely works
Set it up - fine until the first muddy track, then start over.

Was nearly killed 6mths ago at Cruiser park by one of the staff. Ute rolled down hill from showers when he wen titn to clean them and hit tree 3m in front of my car at great rate of knots with tray. Was a big hit.
Next stop - my car, my camp, my kids, our mates and all.
Dunno if handbrake was on at all.

Paul

What is the process for tightening the 80 handbrake?

mine works only on the very last click on the handle

nicbeer wrote:What is the process for tightening the 80 handbrake?

mine works only on the very last click on the handle

first adjust the shoes. turn it right up untill the drum locks, then back off 8 clicks

next adjust the bellcrank to remove any slack in the linkage.

finally adjust the cable from inside the cabin at the lever. It should be tight by 7 clicks on the lever.

If you are installing new shoes and or drums you need to bed them in. Do this by driving at 50kph and pulling the handbrake on. Toyota says to use 9kg of force so imagine your picking up a 9kg gas bottle. Drive like this for 400 meters. repeat 2 or 3 times.

all these figures are from the toyota workshop manual, you can download it if you want more detailed instructions, its in the toyota bible links.

Bellcrank? Please explain.

Matt

Frankenyota wrote:Bellcrank? Please explain.

Matt

behind the backing plate, the handbrake cable attaches to the bellcrank, which is part of the mechanism for actuating the shoes. there is an adjustable stopper on it which rests against the backing plate.

I just dug out the service manual for my 93 80 series.

Parking brake operation should be inspected and adjusted if necessary every 20k kms.

drum and shoes should be inspected and machined/replaced if necessary every 40k kms.

The 'severe conditions' servicing, which would include any amount of offroad driving calls for drum and shoe lining inspections every 20k km.

Nothing wrong with them, people just dont maintain them correctly.

Agreed, if its not working properly its a maintenance problem, they are a high maintenance item if they are used offroad especially. I have had two landcruisers, both drum braked 70 series and the handbrakes both worked very well and would hold on steep hills, until I hit the bog holes.

Ive put in brand new rotors, pads and still have zero handbrake. Adjusted as much as i can... zip. I just ignore it now.

having once worked for Toyota every land cruiser i serviced had a functioning handbrake. i could stall a manual diesel using handbrake
if your car is getting serviced by someone and they cant get the handbrake correct then i wouldn't go there.

I know is NSW a working handbrake is part of rego requirments.



My own 60 series i could park on any angle and even pushing it wouldn't move.

my mates 105 whilst not as good as mine it will still hold on a hill.

Once u put mud or water into a drum brake setup it wont work efficiently simple as that

Both my 100 and my 60 the handbrake is great, holds on reasonable incline, not 45 degrees though, thats what 1st gear is for.

45 is not so great.

The handbrake on my 45 almost killed me the other day, lesson learned, I always leave it in gear, except this one time. converting it to the rear drum type is on the to do list, nothing really wrong with the handbrake in the rear drums.

popeyehj60 wrote:



my mates 105 whilst not as good as mine it will still hold on a hill.

Once u put mud or water into a drum brake setup it wont work efficiently simple as that

The 105 handbrake is MUCH smaller than a 60. It's a tiny little drum (as you know)

After mud or muddy water, it fails to perform, even when fully dried out until re-adjusted.
I need to adjust mine every 5-10,000 km if I want it to work.

Toyota manual says 8 clicks, I and many other find 4 to be better.

The dog bones and other mechanism wears, meanign you need to use more adustmetn on the bellcrank reducing leverge.
I hav heard a 3-4mm bead of weld in the ogbone helps a lot - I have to try this.
I know my bellcrank is adjusted to about 90% to take out slack (that is with shoes set correctly, I am referring to mechanism slack only, with bellcrank springs removed to confirm)
My car has 260,000 on it, and not heaps offroad, so should be representitive of many 105's.

Paul

We extend the dog bones, 3mm tops, or they wont fit properly, and we use different linings on the hand brake shoes to improve them.

Still not a patrol hand brake, but improves them by 50%.

Any cruiser inside brake drum hand brake that adjusts and holds on a standard engine car that wont drive away with it engaged probably hasnt been 4wding

Hi guys

thanks for the great feedback - great to see 4WD community supporting each other!!

I just got off the phone from the Senior Legal Counsel (Affinity Insurance). She is quite amazing - and is very keen to help (she has plenty of friends/family with 'Cruisers, and is very concerned by this).

What she needs - before even considering making an apporach to Toyota - is if anyone has ever made a claim on their insurance policy (Affinity or not) regarding a 'faulty' handbrake.

Now I know a lot of you said adjusting a handbrake is easy; I disagree (I also didn't know what a bellcrank was or where it is) but still consider myself an experienced 4WD'er!!

I also doubt whether many 4WD specialist mechanics service handbrakes to Toyota specs - infact I can remember many times going to the mechanic and all they've done is stick the screwdriver into the small hole in the drum, adjust the handbrake a little more - and off i go.

I drive around for a bit - and hey presto... no handbrake anymore...

Anyway - if anyone is comfortable to PM me with some private details of their (or their mates) accident claims, I'll forward them onto Affinity.

Something else to consider while reading this email and thinking about what to do. I've now made two (2) independant claims on two (2) Cruisers (1 x Poverty Pack Standard Disel 5 spd manual; 1 x GXL TD Auto).

If it happens again (and I told her I can't guarantee that it won't), they CAN 1: refuse renewal to me, 2: increase premiums on all other 'Cruisers, 3: submit this data to other insurance companies (which means either way. we'll ALL be affected).

So we need to help each other - take Toyota to task - and get them to fix it!!

Were not in America mate.... really c'mon. Your really going to be pushing shit up hill to get anywhere, the general consensus seems to be that they work fine when maintained. Also the handbrake has passed the relevant Australian Standards, have any of your incidents been as a result of a component failure or just a lacking of holding power? Possibly due to a maintenance issue.

Toyota are going to say, prove you have always used genuine parts, prove it was adjust as per Toyota guidelines and tested, then if you have had an issue with it before why was it not documented and something done about it?

There are plenty of things that give issue when not fully maintained.

Auto-Craft wrote:We extend the dog bones, 3mm tops, or they wont fit properly, and we use different linings on the hand brake shoes to improve them.

Still not a patrol hand brake, but improves them by 50%.

Any cruiser inside brake drum hand brake that adjusts and holds on a standard engine car that wont drive away with it engaged probably hasnt been 4wding

What do you think of fitting a driveshaft brake Darren?

Paul

hulsty wrote:Were not in America mate.... really c'mon. Your really going to be pushing shit up hill to get anywhere, the general consensus seems to be that they work fine when maintained. Also the handbrake has passed the relevant Australian Standards, have any of your incidents been as a result of a component failure or just a lacking of holding power? Possibly due to a maintenance issue.

Toyota are going to say, prove you have always used genuine parts, prove it was adjust as per Toyota guidelines and tested, then if you have had an issue with it before why was it not documented and something done about it?

There are plenty of things that give issue when not fully maintained.

I hear what you're saying...

Whilst we don't live in the US (and thank God for that!!), Oz is becoming more and more litigious (that is just life)...

As for pushing the proverbial uphill - again I agree. This is why we (read me) are gathering information and evidence before we even start.

If we don't have this - we don't have a case. If we do - then parts can be changed; guidelines can be changed.

I know my service intervals are being followed (every 5,000 km's), how do I know if it's being done properly. Now I'm not haveing adig at mechanics b/c there are plenty of good ones out there - but realistically - how do you know??

Anyway - way off topic here - just need some help please.

Mate, best case is they'll do a recall, like they did for the front brake bolts.

Recalls suck. You have to let Toyota work on your car, no oversight. They won't supply the parts, won;t let you do it, won't let you watch.

I won't let them work on my car without oversight. I'm leaving my old bolts in place as a result.

Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote: I won't let them work on my car without oversight. I'm leaving my old bolts in place as a result.

Paul

why not pull them out yourself and rivet the calipers on?

Zorba The Greek wrote:
Now I know a lot of you said adjusting a handbrake is easy; I disagree (I also didn't know what a bellcrank was or where it is) but still consider myself an experienced 4WD'er!!

Its not an experiences 4wder that services and maintains a car, its a mechanic. By your own admission you are incompetent and should not be adjusting your handbrake as you dont even know how it works.

Zorba The Greek wrote: I also doubt whether many 4WD specialist mechanics service handbrakes to Toyota specs - infact I can remember many times going to the mechanic and all they've done is stick the screwdriver into the small hole in the drum, adjust the handbrake a little more - and off i go.

I drive around for a bit - and hey presto... no handbrake anymore...

Go to a better mechanic.

Zorba The Greek wrote: Something else to consider while reading this email and thinking about what to do. I've now made two (2) independant claims on two (2) Cruisers (1 x Poverty Pack Standard Disel 5 spd manual; 1 x GXL TD Auto).

So you often park your vehicle and rely only on the hand brake, knowing that it is not working properly?

Zorba The Greek wrote: If it happens again (and I told her I can't guarantee that it won't), they CAN 1: refuse renewal to me, 2: increase premiums on all other 'Cruisers, 3: submit this data to other insurance companies (which means either way. we'll ALL be affected).

If it happens again??? Seriously, you would let it happen a 3rd time?

Zorba The Greek wrote: So we need to help each other - take Toyota to task - and get them to fix it!!

Help who? Me? I have 3 cruisers and do not have a problem with any of my handbrakes. The 100 and 60 series both hold well on inclines. The FJ45 does not hold so great, but I know its not great and park it in gear. (as i do all cars i drive, not just cruisers or 4wd's.)

Zorba The Greek wrote:Something else to consider while reading this email and thinking about what to do. I've now made two (2) independant claims on two (2) Cruisers (1 x Poverty Pack Standard Disel 5 spd manual; 1 x GXL TD Auto).

Do I assume correctly that both claims involved an unmanned vehcile rolling away? How often do you park on steep hills? It's not too often you hear of an automatic vehicle rolling away. Infact in many autos the parking pawl can get stuck on if there is a lot of load on it.

Incidently if you do park frequenly on steep hills then it might interest you to know that in San Fransisco which has many steep hills it is a rule that when parking on an incline you turn the wheels into the gutter. It acts as a wheel chock, and if something happens and the vehicle rolls away it won't go down the hill,

I have had the Handbrake problem. Everytime it is maintained the handbrake is checked and adjusted. The entire system was overhauled about a year ago and this made a big difference now it will hold on hills.

I still do not trust it like I did my patrol handbrake, but they are a totally different set-up and the Toyota one requires a lot more service. The 80 did OK when down at Thredbo in February, it would hold but I will always leave in gear just in case. Only now is it starting to get a bit weak again.

To all these people saying that they have had there handbrakes replaces and overhauled.
What was exactly over hauled and was it adjust in all areas correctly.

are the inside of the disks clean and not glazed.


as i said earlier if the mechanic cant get a land cruiser handbrake to work then i wouldn't go there for servicing coz hes not competent in all areas

http://www.hoppers.com.au/brake%20kits/ ... ochure.pdf

Is worth the read.

Some mines run a full new brake system, wet discs in oil, fully sealed.