Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey all,

It's quite possible I have to drop the gearbox in my 40 to fix my clutch, aside from the obvious; plate and(?) throwout bearing, is there anything I should look at/replace while the box is out?

It's a '79 BJ40, B motor w/ 4 speed box. It was sitting in a paddock for what looked like about 2 years when I picked it up, with frozen clutch plate. Master and Slave cylinder were both seized, I took them apart, cleaned ect (no pitting or anything). Freed up the plate by shunting back n forth. The clutch seems to have been working fine for a few months (trips round the backyard) up until now. Trying to shift when stationary grinds in reverse and wont select foward gears, until I push the clutch a few times. It's not leaking and slave seems to be moving the release fork without a drama. Leads me to believe it's the plate or throwout bearing, although there's no tell-tale t/o bearing noises.

So, original question, is there anything else that should be done while i've got the box out?

Cheers, Andy.

rear main seal if its dodgy?

Is that as straight foward as it seems? I believe it's leaking like a sieve lol.
Awesome 40 btw, your build always keeps me motivated

the main things to do in there while your at it are >>
full clutch kit including spigot bearing, rear main seal..
check the back of the flywheel for signs of the leak pattern as they can be deseptive as to the real leak as it can be the output shaft of the box i replaced myn yrs ago to relise it was the box not the motor leaking, also look at the output shaft housing gasket ...

there is an easy way to check your clutch too
take off the dust cover to the bell housing get under there with a flat blade screw driver and have somebody push in the clutch and you will see the release of the plate and in nuetral you should be able to poke the clutch plate around when released...


oh and a big big tip for a 40 box is a small tube of nulon g70 added to the oil you wont know your self with the difference ( quiet slick and slides into gears )
hope this helps
Cheers
Mark

Narrowscopeofreality wrote:Is that as straight foward as it seems? I believe it's leaking like a sieve lol.
Awesome 40 btw, your build always keeps me motivated

I replaced it when i did my 3b swap and the person that did it was a mechanic too... even so it still leaked a tiny bit.. not saying my mate did a shit job, just saying its probably NOT as straight forward as it seems.. if its leaking give it a go!! thanks for your feedback too

Thanks guys, hopefully i'll get it done in the next couple of weeks. Reckon it's a two man job or would I manage on my own?

Narrowscopeofreality wrote:Thanks guys, hopefully i'll get it done in the next couple of weeks. Reckon it's a two man job or would I manage on my own?

depends on the lifting tools you have available?

with an engine crane, or a 2x4 through the windows and a block and tackle off that, one man job. if not, 2 is much easier.

rear main (on a 2f, never played with B's) is straightforward. i did mine, and it didn't leak a drop! and i'm no mechanic.

I should be able to use the gantry crane at work so the lifting shouldnt be problem. Any tricks to look out for when doing the clutch?

Narrowscopeofreality wrote:I should be able to use the gantry crane at work so the lifting shouldnt be problem. Any tricks to look out for when doing the clutch?

don't tighten the pressure plate down completely until the gearbox is in and aligned... having the clutch disk free to move a little bit helps give you wiggle room.

replace the pilot bearing while your in there too... don't ask me how annoying the sound is after you've just got it back together

and don't forget to detatch the handbrake cable and speedo cable... and reverse light wires

oh, and lifting the gearbox through the hole in the floor (remove the cover round the shifter) is the easiest way to lift the box.

and have fun removing the shifter it'self... you push in and turn, but they are a PITA

find some long bolts the same thread as the bolts that bolt the gearbox to the bellhousing. grind the head off em, grind some flats on them to be able to turn them with a shifter. this helps lining the box up when your doing it by yourself. because the transfer is offset, the box doesn't like lining up the way it needs to, it's not balanced.


dunno if that's all stuff you'd already thought of, but it's what i learnt the hard way the first one i did.

Ive never pulled a gearbox before so most of that I didn't know, thanks, appreciate it.

Interesting turn of events, i've got an opituniity to get my hands on a complete 3F w/box ect, running schmick.

The B is getting a bit tired, blowing a bit of blue smoke, and with having to replace the clutch anyway, would the 3F be a worthwhile conversion? I can get the 3F for the near the same price as a new clutch. More ponies and torque, the only part i'm hesitant about is straying away from the diesel.

Anyone have any thoughts?

3f;s are boat anchors, terrible engines. and its much more work to do a diesel - petrol swap than do a clutch

bad_religion_au wrote:3f;s are boat anchors, terrible engines. and its much more work to do a diesel - petrol swap than do a clutch

Haha.. Show's How Much You Noe Buddy!... If That's True Than How Come The 3F Motor Was Covered In The Roothy's 4WD Custom Guide No.23, He Only Covered 65 Engines... Here's The Spec's For The Motor Andy.. 3F 4.0L SIX (60 Series 1981-1990, 70 Series 1985-1992, 80 Series 1990-1992 LANDCRUISER) (POWER: 110KW. 4200RPM, TORQUE: 284NM. 2200RPM).. But Yeah Still Can't Beat A Diesel Engine...

MANCRUISER wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:3f;s are boat anchors, terrible engines. and its much more work to do a diesel - petrol swap than do a clutch

Haha.. Show's How Much You Noe Buddy!... If That's True Than How Come The 3F Motor Was Covered In The Roothy's 4WD Custom Guide No.23, He Only Covered 65 Engines... Here's The Spec's For The Motor Andy.. 3F 4.0L SIX (60 Series 1981-1990, 70 Series 1985-1992, 80 Series 1990-1992 LANDCRUISER) (POWER: 110KW. 4200RPM, TORQUE: 284NM. 2200RPM).. But Yeah Still Can't Beat A Diesel Engine...

because roothy knows all

the 2f is a much better motor for offroad despite being an older one. the 3f is just a de-stroked 2f, which means you get less capacity, and less lugging power, all to make it a little more rev happy...

the cranks and rods are weaker than the 2F, because they are lightened to try to get it to rev. peak power at 4200rpm... where's the redline for that motor? 4500rpm.

not how i want to drive a big capacity six.

bad_religion_au wrote:

MANCRUISER wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:3f;s are boat anchors, terrible engines. and its much more work to do a diesel - petrol swap than do a clutch

Haha.. Show's How Much You Noe Buddy!... If That's True Than How Come The 3F Motor Was Covered In The Roothy's 4WD Custom Guide No.23, He Only Covered 65 Engines... Here's The Spec's For The Motor Andy.. 3F 4.0L SIX (60 Series 1981-1990, 70 Series 1985-1992, 80 Series 1990-1992 LANDCRUISER) (POWER: 110KW. 4200RPM, TORQUE: 284NM. 2200RPM).. But Yeah Still Can't Beat A Diesel Engine...

because roothy knows all

the 2f is a much better motor for offroad despite being an older one. the 3f is just a de-stroked 2f, which means you get less capacity, and less lugging power, all to make it a little more rev happy...

the cranks and rods are weaker than the 2F, because they are lightened to try to get it to rev. peak power at 4200rpm... where's the redline for that motor? 4500rpm.

not how i want to drive a big capacity six.

That's A Load Of Bull Kaka... And The 3F Engine Im Selling Is Coming With A 350 Holley Carb, Give It Just That Lil More Sting (Yes It Will Swallow The Fuel)... And Also In The 4WD Custom Guide It Tells You How To Get 25% More Power Out Of The 3F Which Is.. New Camshaft And Valve Spring Upgrade (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1000), 2.5in Exhaust System (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1500), And Extractors (Performance Gain 5%... Approx Cost $500)...

whats in milo? 13bt?

leave it in man it'll go forever slap a turbo on a bit later and your set

Nice shameless plugs for 4WD Custom Mag there mate!



P.S. You Don't Need To Start Every Word With A Capital Letter

MANCRUISER wrote: That's A Load Of Bull Kaka... And The 3F Engine Im Selling Is Coming With A 350 Holley Carb, Give It Just That Lil More Sting (Yes It Will Swallow The Fuel)... And Also In The 4WD Custom Guide It Tells You How To Get 25% More Power Out Of The 3F Which Is.. New Camshaft And Valve Spring Upgrade (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1000), 2.5in Exhaust System (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1500), And Extractors (Performance Gain 5%... Approx Cost $500)...

turbo = $1000, exhaust (2.5in) = $300 - performance gain 30-40%
fuel economy of approx 13l/100k maintained..

MANCRUISER wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

MANCRUISER wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:3f;s are boat anchors, terrible engines. and its much more work to do a diesel - petrol swap than do a clutch

Haha.. Show's How Much You Noe Buddy!... If That's True Than How Come The 3F Motor Was Covered In The Roothy's 4WD Custom Guide No.23, He Only Covered 65 Engines... Here's The Spec's For The Motor Andy.. 3F 4.0L SIX (60 Series 1981-1990, 70 Series 1985-1992, 80 Series 1990-1992 LANDCRUISER) (POWER: 110KW. 4200RPM, TORQUE: 284NM. 2200RPM).. But Yeah Still Can't Beat A Diesel Engine...

because roothy knows all

the 2f is a much better motor for offroad despite being an older one. the 3f is just a de-stroked 2f, which means you get less capacity, and less lugging power, all to make it a little more rev happy...

the cranks and rods are weaker than the 2F, because they are lightened to try to get it to rev. peak power at 4200rpm... where's the redline for that motor? 4500rpm.

not how i want to drive a big capacity six.

That's A Load Of Bull Kaka... And The 3F Engine Im Selling Is Coming With A 350 Holley Carb, Give It Just That Lil More Sting (Yes It Will Swallow The Fuel)... And Also In The 4WD Custom Guide It Tells You How To Get 25% More Power Out Of The 3F Which Is.. New Camshaft And Valve Spring Upgrade (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1000), 2.5in Exhaust System (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1500), And Extractors (Performance Gain 5%... Approx Cost $500)...

why are you selling it if its such an awesome motor?

MANCRUISER wrote:
That's A Load Of Bull Kaka... And The 3F Engine Im Selling Is Coming With A 350 Holley Carb, Give It Just That Lil More Sting (Yes It Will Swallow The Fuel)... And Also In The 4WD Custom Guide It Tells You How To Get 25% More Power Out Of The 3F Which Is.. New Camshaft And Valve Spring Upgrade (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1000), 2.5in Exhaust System (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1500), And Extractors (Performance Gain 5%... Approx Cost $500)...

got proof it's bull?

look at the numbers for the 2F (introduced in 1975).... the figures are within 10% of the 3f (not 35)... 10% for 10 years development? why do you think the 3f was ditched so quickly for the 1fz-fe in the 80 if it's a wonderful engine?

but goes to show you know nothing if your advocating a 350 holley for an offroad motor. they run like crap on angles, where the standard toyota carb is much better.

and any engine can be pepped up the same by doing a cam, exhaust etc...

shorty_f0rty wrote:whats in milo? 13bt?

leave it in man it'll go forever slap a turbo on a bit later and your set

Umm.. Im Not Sure Mate... He's Got A New One Now.. And Nope Im Changing To A 2H, If Andy Don't Want The 3F.. I'm Going To Get Rid Of Her For More.. I Love You And Your Mate's 40's BTW...

bad_religion_au wrote:

MANCRUISER wrote:
That's A Load Of Bull Kaka... And The 3F Engine Im Selling Is Coming With A 350 Holley Carb, Give It Just That Lil More Sting (Yes It Will Swallow The Fuel)... And Also In The 4WD Custom Guide It Tells You How To Get 25% More Power Out Of The 3F Which Is.. New Camshaft And Valve Spring Upgrade (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1000), 2.5in Exhaust System (Performance Gain 10%... Approx Cost: $1500), And Extractors (Performance Gain 5%... Approx Cost $500)...

got proof it's bull?

look at the numbers for the 2F (introduced in 1975).... the figures are within 10% of the 3f (not 35)... 10% for 10 years development? why do you think the 3f was ditched so quickly for the 1fz-fe in the 80 if it's a wonderful engine?

but goes to show you know nothing if your advocating a 350 holley for an offroad motor. they run like crap on angles, where the standard toyota carb is much better.

and any engine can be pepped up the same by doing a cam, exhaust etc...

The Jap's Got Smarter And Built Better And More Improved Engines .. And Holley Came With Engine Buddy... And Yes I Know That Doofus... I Was Just Showing My Mate The Spec's Because He Might Be Interested....

MANCRUISER wrote: The Jap's Got Smarter And Built Better And More Improved Engines .. And Holley Came With Engine Buddy... And Yes I Know That Doofus... I Was Just Showing My Mate The Spec's Because He Might Be Interested....

really? how was the 3f improved over the 2f? i don't see a weaker bottom end an improvement, a less flat torque curve... and the economy is no better.

bad_religion_au wrote:

MANCRUISER wrote: The Jap's Got Smarter And Built Better And More Improved Engines .. And Holley Came With Engine Buddy... And Yes I Know That Doofus... I Was Just Showing My Mate The Spec's Because He Might Be Interested....

really? how was the 3f improved over the 2f? i don't see a weaker bottom end an improvement, a less flat torque curve... and the economy is no better.

Haha.. Did You Not Just Ask Why The 3F Was Ditched So Quickly! (The Jap's Got Smarter And Built Better And More Improved Engines)... And No S&%T Sherlock, Why Do You Think Im Doing An Engine Conversion...

I have a FJ45 with a 2F engine and i pissed the bastard straight off after i blew a head while fourbing.. (the 2f had a full reco about a month before i hit this track..)
I Then put a 3F in Runs F'n beautiful.. i done the same track about 10 times now with the new 3F... does'nt miss a beat..

Cheers

Busta774 wrote:I have a FJ45 with a 2F engine and i pissed the bastard straight off after i blew a head while fourbing.. (the 2f had a full reco about a month before i hit this track..)
I Then put a 3F in Runs F'n beautiful.. i done the same track about 10 times now with the new 3F... does'nt miss a beat..

Cheers

2f and 3f heads are as likely to crack as each other, they are pretty much the same (you can put a 3f head on a 2f bottom end from memory). metalurgically they are very similar, so:

whoever reco'd your 2f didn't know what they were doing obviously.

Busta774 wrote:I have a FJ45 with a 2F engine and i pissed the bastard straight off after i blew a head while fourbing.. (the 2f had a full reco about a month before i hit this track..)
I Then put a 3F in Runs F'n beautiful.. i done the same track about 10 times now with the new 3F... does'nt miss a beat..

Cheers

Haha Thanks Bud For The Back Up.. BTW Which Track Did You Blow The Head On??

MANCRUISER wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

MANCRUISER wrote: The Jap's Got Smarter And Built Better And More Improved Engines .. And Holley Came With Engine Buddy... And Yes I Know That Doofus... I Was Just Showing My Mate The Spec's Because He Might Be Interested....

really? how was the 3f improved over the 2f? i don't see a weaker bottom end an improvement, a less flat torque curve... and the economy is no better.

Haha.. Did You Not Just Ask Why The 3F Was Ditched So Quickly! (The Jap's Got Smarter And Built Better And More Improved Engines)... And No S&%T Sherlock, Why Do You Think Im Doing An Engine Conversion...

to an even worse engine

well if your statement was true that they engineer better engines over time, then the 3f, logically, should be better than the 2f. it's not.

now look at the improvement the 1fz-fe was over 5 years of development, compared to the 10 years the 3f took over the 2f... the 3f was a bad motor, plain and simple. not saying it's an unreliable hand grenade, but it's a case of there is always a better option than a 3f, even if it's a 2f

Haha Thanks Bud For The Back Up.. BTW Which Track Did You Blow The Head On??

A Hectic trail up at gatton

Busta774 wrote:

Haha Thanks Bud For The Back Up.. BTW Which Track Did You Blow The Head On??

A Hectic trail up at gatton

Ahh Ok.... And Yes I Think 2F and 3F's Are Very Similar, But Yet If I Had To Choose Between The 2... I Would Definetly Go 3F...