Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all

About nine months ago, I bought brand new secondair internal beadlocks for my 285 75 16 BFG KM2 Mud Terrains.

The first couple of months I had them, they didn't miss a beat.

Since then, most trips I go on, I lose a beadlock, sometimes 2. Normally the tube has a puncture and sometimes it's very fraid. Sometimes the bag lets go as well.

I was originally running the beadlocks at 50 while my tyres were at 40 and when I let the tyres down to 10, 15, 20, the beadlocks ended up about 46 or 47.

I was running 16 inch 80 series alloy wheels and tried running sunraysia steel wheels, it didn't make a difference. I've since had the steel wheels on.

I then tried running the beadlocks at 43 while the tyres were at 40 and when I'd let the tyres down, the beadlocks were about 40. For about 2 months, nothing missed a beat, but then it started happening again just as easily as before.

The last beadlock I lost, when the mechanic pulled the tyre apart, the inside of the tyre was all fraid from the beadlock bag rubbing up against it, now my tyre is destroyed. I don't know if this was caused when the beadlock was working or if it was caused by driving for about 100 km with a broken flat beadlock.

Most driving I do is medium to hard mud and rocks. I've had them let go in the sand as well.

Normally I run the tyres between 10 and 15 on the tracks, 20 if it's unsealed roads and trail and faster easier stuff and 10 in the sand. I hardly do any road driving with them low, maybe a couple of km between tracks, I take it easy.

Am I doing something wrong?

What could be happening?

What could be causing this?

What can I do to fix it?


Thanks everyone

Maybe you want to invest in some mechanical ones?

From my knowledge of internal beadlocks, they are quite "hit and miss".
I've heard stories of people having nothing but trouble from them, and others who have run them for years and only had minor issues.
I have never run them personally, but I do know people who have. They have had drama's with them, but not to the extent of your ongoing issues.

Probably a silly question, but are your rims and inside of your tyre clean?

Jeff80 wrote:From my knowledge of internal beadlocks, they are quite "hit and miss".
I've heard stories of people having nothing but trouble from them, and others who have run them for years and only had minor issues.
I have never run them personally, but I do know people who have. They have had drama's with them, but not to the extent of your ongoing issues.

Probably a silly question, but are your rims and inside of your tyre clean?

Been cleaned soooooo many times by the mechanic doing it, if not cleaned, checked at least.

They've also tried putting heaps of baby powder around everything hoping it would find it's place better, but that didn't work.

If it matters, inside my alloy wheels, there's heaps of tiny corrugations in it, that's probably the best way of describing it. The steel wheels are smooth, but a different shape inside.

First. Why is this in the Toyota Section?

Second. Find yourself a new installer.

I ran second airs for at least 12 months on a competition rockcrawler and also a built Hilux and never once had a failure. Running the tyres down to 3psi and the beadlock at 40psi. I got mud in beads at times but that is to be expected with an internal air beadlock but never damaged a tube. I also ran a 38TSL for at least 5ks in very hard terrain dead flat after steaking the tyre with no effect on the beadlock.

In case you're all wondering everyone, it's on a 94 automatic turbo diesel 80 series.

Sorry I should've mentioned that.

apparently some tyres have wider bead seating sections that have a sharp edge (this is according to the staun website) which can ware the bead locks and puncture tubes, they reckon if ya remove the sharp edge there shouldn't be issues

As ruff said get a new installer, maybe a qualified tire installer not a mechanic! leave the mechanic to mechanical work.
I run them in many comps and the only time a had a real blow outone one only was a double rollover, other than that just a slight bit of inconvenience with dirt getting in between the rim and the tire when driving against dirt ledges..
the double rollover i just put a new tube in it and they worked again for ages.

also wouldn't you contact staun after the first few mishaps?? as i am sure they would help you.

SuperiorEngineering wrote:As ruff said get a new installer, maybe a qualified tire installer not a mechanic! leave the mechanic to mechanical work.
I run them in many comps and the only time a had a real blow outone one only was a double rollover, other than that just a slight bit of inconvenience with dirt getting in between the rim and the tire when driving against dirt ledges..
the double rollover i just put a new tube in it and they worked again for ages.

also wouldn't you contact staun after the first few mishaps?? as i am sure they would help you.

I've been using a 4wd specialist mechanic who's dealing with tyres all the time and got all the tyre equipment. I'm using them because I figured they'd know more about beadlocks and 4wd's than Bob Jane or some place like that normally do 2wd's.

This mechanic says he's done heaps of other beadlocks through time and nothing's missed a beat and he's puzzled. He's had beadlocks himself.

They're Secondair, not Staun beadlocks, that's why I haven't spoken to Staun, but I have spoken to Secondair many times and so has the mechanic.

RUFF wrote:First. Why is this in the Toyota Section?

I agree moved to gentech will most likely get more attention here.

There are a couple of generations of beadlocks and the most common causes of what you're talking about are as follows. (I've done most of these myself )

Incorrect fitting of the canvas section causing the tube to pinch.
Incorrect size beadlock (width) causing the beadlock to move around.
Sharp edges on the valve hole or in the wheel.
Incorrect fitting of the tyre inflation valve causing the beadlock tube to pinch.
Refill the beadlocks after you air down to make sure you have correct fittment.

The tires shouldn't have much to do with the beadlock as the canvas should wrap around the beadlock enough that there is no connection between the tire and the beadlock tube. I ran these for 2 years at outback challenge and other comps and the only time they failed was because of my own fault. One more thing to really be careful of is I would really stay away from using a mechanical tire changer. You can very easily pinch the beadlock when doing this.

15reble wrote:

SuperiorEngineering wrote:As ruff said get a new installer, maybe a qualified tire installer not a mechanic! leave the mechanic to mechanical work.
I run them in many comps and the only time a had a real blow outone one only was a double rollover, other than that just a slight bit of inconvenience with dirt getting in between the rim and the tire when driving against dirt ledges..
the double rollover i just put a new tube in it and they worked again for ages.

also wouldn't you contact staun after the first few mishaps?? as i am sure they would help you.

I've been using a 4wd specialist mechanic who's dealing with tyres all the time and got all the tyre equipment. I'm using them because I figured they'd know more about beadlocks and 4wd's than Bob Jane or some place like that normally do 2wd's.

This mechanic says he's done heaps of other beadlocks through time and nothing's missed a beat and he's puzzled. He's had beadlocks himself.

They're Secondair, not Staun beadlocks, that's why I haven't spoken to Staun, but I have spoken to Secondair many times and so has the mechanic.

There are big difference's between the Second air & the Staun. The Staun is a much better product. And I would say that most of the comments about having no trouble will be from the people running Stauns.

So get your self a set of Stauns or get better tubes.

Cheers
David

I have old Stauns, they have given me virtually no trouble at all. Recently did a two week trip down the Tasmanian west coast, did over 1200km with no troubles, every day I was airing up and down.

Also the ratio of air and the pressure between the tyre and the lock tube is very important.

Bazzle

I've run down to 7-8psi in the tyre and my usual 45-50psi in the beadlocks and never had an issue in the 5 yrs I've had them in. I'm inclined to go with the "lip" theory as the cause of your issues.

There really is no magic in the ratio of the air pressures. The manufacturer (in my case Secondair) stated initially that there should be no more than 5 psi between the two, but later changed their advice to above 40psi/up to 50psi in the beadlock at all times, which is what is currently recommended.

The looser the pressure is in the beadlock/tyre assembly, the more scope there is for friction between the components to occur when rolling forces are applied (sandpaper effect). Logic says this is a reasonable presumption.

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote:Maybe you want to invest in some mechanical ones?

X2

I run mine at 45psi in the beadlock with 35 in the tyres which I let down to 5-10psi, no issues.

I ran the same set of STAUNS in all the comps from 2004 to 2007, with only 1 re-acuring issue, whitch was when they were installed in-correctly, it was hard to air up & air down as the internal valves were positioned incorectly by the installed.
The NEW style have been made installer proof & even stronger (I thaught the old Stauns were stong enough I put them threw years of Hell)
So far I have done 8000klm on my new Staun wheel combo's, keeping the Stauns at 50psi all the time.

I LIKE EM. I USE EM. I TRUST EM.

Hi everyone

I know it's been a while but I've found the problem and I thought you'd all like to know.

Hopefully if I tell you, the same thing won't happen to you.

I'd had enough of the 4wd mechanic who couldn't fix it.

I did my homework on other mechanics and tyre shops around the place with experience in internal beadlocks.

I had to go interstate for a few days. I booked the car at a tyre shop, told him, "Here's the keys, I'll leave the car with you for a few days, just do what you have to do to stop those dam beadlocks from breaking, if it's costly, let me know first."

He was 99% sure he'd found the problem, stickers.

The inside of the tyres had BFG stickers with sizes and and stuff written all over them. They were about 2 inches by 4 inches.

The stickers can cause beadlock tubes to puncture, the same as a tube on a tube tyre. This can happen even though it's got the protection of the bag.

I made a couple of phone calls and both him and a couple of other 4wd mechanics said that they've had a few cars in with non stop beadlock troubles and as soon as they take the stickers off, everything works a treat.

I've done about 10 or 15 days of 4wding with the tyres around 13 pound and nothing's missed a beat. Normally by now, I would have lost about 7.

About 9 months ago, I asked the original 4wd mechanic if the stickers could cause any dramas, he said no because the tubes have got the protection of the bag.

I told him that there's no compromise in taking them off and it might be worth taking them off and being 110% certain instead of 100% certain, he said, "No it wouldn't make a difference."

I went back and told him about this and he said that all the other tyres he's fitted beadlocks to haven't had stickers.

Don't you hate how some sticker can cause me to lose about 20 beadlocks and cost a fortune and so many headaches?

So yea, I just thought you'd all like to know.

One thing about it everyone

When we pulled them apart and found the puncture in the tube, it was almost always in the same place.

Time and time again, it had a tiny puncture in the tube, the tube was a little damaged around it, we put a patch on it and then next one that let go in that tyre, it was about the same place.

We were always trying to work out why.

Now we know, because most of the time they put the tyre and beadlock back in the same position on the wheel.

I which case, it was normally the same section of the beadlock touching the sticker on the tyre.

With that, everything falls into place even more hey.

Internals eh?

I've had my beadlocks now for about 5 years, run BFG Krawlers, Let them down to 2psi for slow work, 8psi for hours on end in the hot QLD sand dunes, I regularly have to.........
Actually no I don't have to do anything. I've never had to touch them, they never leak, I've never lost a bead, I've never struggled to let air out of the tire, I've never had a problem...... period!

Best advice ever.... get mech beadlocks! They kick arse!

And Alloy ones are becoming quite well priced.
Walker Evans, Trailready, Raceline - all quality gear!

Have fun!

I've had the Stauns for 2 years now, apart from the occasional valve being snapped off by rocks (definitely a design flaw), never missed a beat apart from that.

I run mine a bit lower, around 40psi when on road (in the locks) so they sit on around 35psi when tyres are aired down (normally 10-14psi).

I can't fault them, also once ran a dead flat tyre after a sidewall stake and the beadlock held it on the rim no worries.

I also trust them, I would buy them again