Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hiya fellas,

Do you manual drivers downshift or only use the brake when slowing down? I've heard arguments for either argument and am looking at the benefits of both.

Personally I brake IMO saves the clutch.......

i always down shift where possible and only use the brakes to wipe off small amounts of speed.
mainly a throwback from driving trucks

brakes are cheaper than clutches, however i down gear to suit the speed as it go, but i usually double clutch to avoid forcing the clutch to slip to equal th espeed.

I back off when slowing down very slowly.

I down shift when slowing down slowly.

I brake when slowing down quickly.

I use both when slowing down very quickly.

I also use both when hooning.

Cheers

All hail the school of Braudy. That's pretty much exactly what I do and can't say I've ever experienced excessive wear on either brakes or clutch/gearbox.

I think more importantly it's how gently you perform those acts rather than which act itself is better.... Just like how you should treat a woman for best results!!!!You can get away with just about anything if you go about it gently

My dad has always said, brakes pads are very very cheap, clutch and greabox arent.


Makes sense to me.

i use gears all the time - but i rev match on downchanging so its smoother, faster and saves the clutch a bit more. I tend to try not to use the brakes too much as theres no weight in my rear end, so the rear can lock up and try overtake the front.

I've always downshifted, despite my driving instructor telling me "gears are for going brakes are for slowing" or some other nonsense. My Dad taught me to drive and his background was in non-synchro commercials from the 50's, overloaded, and governed. You had to drive smoothly and downshift. I think that made him an excellent tutor.

I've never done a clutch or a gearbox and I normally get twice the typical brake life from my cars. I don't baby my cars- I drive briskly and use the power - but I don't hate them either.

I challenge that brakes are cheap and clutches expensive when you have Brembos and pads and rotors all round are $3K and rotors get changed with pads.

It's all about mechanical sympathy though - if you concentrate on driving smoothly it's all good - if you are a hack, buy an auto.

Steve.

I was taught to downshift and expected to when I did my driving test.

Never suffered a failed clutch and personally I think downshifting is more sympathetic to the whole vehicle.

Cheers

Downshift. You should always be in an appropriate gear for your road speed.

Shadow wrote:My dad has always said, brakes pads are very very cheap, clutch and greabox arent.

Makes sense to me.

Clutch, maybe - technically.

Gearbox? WTF piece of crap gearbox are you driving?

Gentle downshifts while decelerating gently will contribute fark-all to clutch or gearbox wear.

Hell you hardly even need a clutch if you were taught correctly. All my 3-4, 4-5 upshifts are done minus clutch, and most of my down shifts down 5-4-3-2 are too. Matter of knowing your vehicle and not needing to be in a hurry to shift. Out of gear while engine is "off-load", blips of the accel with a bit of a timed nudge of the gearstick into lower gear. Straight out non-synchro truckie style.

^^^ hahah yep - i remember learning that (taught myself) when my clutch died the first time... i just learnt to do without it unless i was stopping =) haha

-Scott- wrote: Gentle downshifts while decelerating gently will contribute fark-all to clutch or gearbox wear.

And what about when its more than gently?

Ive seen people downshift to the point where thier rear wheels are nearly locking up from compression. That is most definantly causing wear and tear on clutch and synchros.

I agree, slowing gently would do bugger all wear, but I also didnt read anything about gently in the OP's post....

Shadow wrote:

-Scott- wrote: Gentle downshifts while decelerating gently will contribute fark-all to clutch or gearbox wear.

And what about when its more than gently?

Ive seen people downshift to the point where thier rear wheels are nearly locking up from compression. That is most definantly causing wear and tear on clutch and synchros.

I agree, slowing gently would do bugger all wear, but I also didnt read anything about gently in the OP's post....

And your point is?????

I thought this thread was about should you downshift or not.

People were arguing against downshift because of wear and tear, without any additional qualification.

I added a qualification of be gentle, and do it.

You've come back with "there are morons out there who abuse their cars".

What's your point?

I own a 2002 isuzu 4tonner tray that gets driven hard.
nearly 300k klms in 4 years still havent needed brakes or clutch.
and shows no signs of needing them any time soon.
my mechanic does another identical truck that has new brakes every 4-6 months and clutch every 8- 12 months.
we do a lot of heavy loads and tow heavy trailers. gears work better to pull that sort of weight up you would cook the brakes .

Shadow wrote:

-Scott- wrote: Gentle downshifts while decelerating gently will contribute fark-all to clutch or gearbox wear.

And what about when its more than gently?

Ive seen people downshift to the point where thier rear wheels are nearly locking up from compression. That is most definantly causing wear and tear on clutch and synchros.

I agree, slowing gently would do bugger all wear, but I also didnt read anything about gently in the OP's post....

if te rear tires are locking from the down shift it's a good indication that the clutch isn't slipping

generally downshift, but if its past 10pm i use the brakes, exhaust is too loud with engine braking

I down shift as it is the way I was taught and is also habit from driving trucks, interestingly though the RTA in NSW at least want you to hold your gear until you either are able to start accelerating again or need to depress the clutch in order to prevent the engine stalling. Personally myself and most other heavy vehicle drivers will continue to drive down the gears but with the number of trucks with autos now I know people with HC licenses who cant drive manual let alone crash

I downshift in a manual, and brake. Something like what Braudy said in practice I think.

I like to be in the right gear for the speed generally. I don't think the way that I downshift is hard on the clutch as it is the engine that is slowing me down, not the clutch itself. It just feels wrong not to downshift anyway, I can't really help it

In an emergency stop, I think it is hit the brakes at maximum non-skid level and more or less forget about the clutch.

I back off when slowing down very slowly.

I down shift when slowing down slowly.

I downshift earlier and brake when slowing down quickly.

I use brake only when slowing down heaps quick (emergency stop)

I also use both when hooning.

Cheers

chimboy - good point on emergency braking...

As much i i downchange all the time, in an emergency braking situation that goes way out the window and you end up just smashing both feet to the floor (clutch and brake).

Unless i've pre-empted the need to brake heavily and thrown it down 2 gears... you just dont have time to downchange in an emergency.

if you brake too much rollin downhill.. your brake rotors will heat up and then you'll have no brakes.

Use your gears accordingly. and match the gears to your speed then you'll be right.

bad_religion_au wrote:

Shadow wrote:

-Scott- wrote: Gentle downshifts while decelerating gently will contribute fark-all to clutch or gearbox wear.

And what about when its more than gently?

Ive seen people downshift to the point where thier rear wheels are nearly locking up from compression. That is most definantly causing wear and tear on clutch and synchros.

I agree, slowing gently would do bugger all wear, but I also didnt read anything about gently in the OP's post....

if te rear tires are locking from the down shift it's a good indication that the clutch isn't slipping

and that your compression is good

-Scott- wrote:

Shadow wrote:

-Scott- wrote: Gentle downshifts while decelerating gently will contribute fark-all to clutch or gearbox wear.

And what about when its more than gently?

Ive seen people downshift to the point where thier rear wheels are nearly locking up from compression. That is most definantly causing wear and tear on clutch and synchros.

I agree, slowing gently would do bugger all wear, but I also didnt read anything about gently in the OP's post....

And your point is?????

I thought this thread was about should you downshift or not.

People were arguing against downshift because of wear and tear, without any additional qualification.

I added a qualification of be gentle, and do it.

You've come back with "there are morons out there who abuse their cars".

What's your point?

I think the thread is actually about "Should you downshift to slow your vehicle down, or just use your brakes"

And I think gently down shifiting isnt doing much to slow the car ?

Shadow wrote:I think the thread is actually about "Should you downshift to slow your vehicle down, or just use your brakes"

And I think gently down shifiting isnt doing much to slow the car ?

I don't know about "gently" exactly, the point is that you match the engine speed to the road speed when you downshift so that the clutch is not suffering undue wear. Then the engine slows the car down and this is not a cause of any particular wear or strain on anything, including the brakes and clutch. So it could feel fairly aggressive in terms of deceleration but still not involve clutch wear.

I understand where you're coming from but I have never really like the style of driving that you're talking about, just using brakes to slow down and not downshifting so that you're in, say, fourth gear when you've slowed down to 15kmh. It just seems like driving in a way that's not attuned to the car.

bakerboy wrote:generally downshift, but if its past 10pm i use the brakes, exhaust is too loud with engine braking

I go by my theory of the snobbier the suburb the more i make the jakes sing.

Best i managed was 4pm friday arvo on George St near town hall, jakes screaming at 2000 up to a pedestrian crossing in every gear and braking as late as possible saw a few office people stumbling to get out of the way.


On track though, Brakes for stopping, gears for slowing. Thats how a bike is ridden and a truck is driven, so cars are about the same.

I think the "gears are for going and brakes are for slowing" thing comes from driving instructors teaching people to pass the test rather than driving properly.

I asked my driving instructor how you drive around corners if you don't downshift under brakes and he replied "you brake as you approach the corner, steer in, then select the appropriate gear for the exit and drive out.

I have absolutely no idea how you are supposed to drive a car properly like that. At the time you are concentrating on both your steering input and sighting your exit, you are taking a hand off the wheel to go for a gear.

I kind of got the impression that the instructor was a bit embarrassed when he explained this "theory" to me.

I guess it's too hard to teach road rules as well as flow and timing, which is 90% of driving a car and especially a manual IMHO. I work very hard at this, and I'm quite proud that I can drive at about 8/10ths (on a familiar road) with my wife asleep in the seat next to me. I'm not trying to talk myself up at all, only to point out that I think that driving quickly and smoothly is quite hard work and an end itself in a way.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote: I asked my driving instructor how you drive around corners if you don't downshift under brakes and he replied "you brake as you approach the corner, steer in, then select the appropriate gear for the exit and drive out.
Steve.

I was told to be in the right gear and going the right speed before entering a turn. That keeps both hands on the wheel for steering, rather then fiddling with the stick mid turn. But like a forum different people and different driving instructors will have different opinions.

My opinion is gearing down in a car is pointless. They weight nothing and have huge brakinf force, compared to a truck. The reason you do it in a truck is to keep the engine brake going. That and in the old days foot brakes would easily overheat and fail. Modern trucks are much better.

That may be true oldmate, but IMHO the reason the gear down in a car is quite different as you've already explained - being in the right gear and going the right speed before entering a turn.

The side effect is that's much lighter on the brakes.

The reasons to gear down in a truck are, as you have also stated, quite different.

That doesn't mean gearing down in a car is pointless. for me, it's part of the timing and flow of driving- being prepared for the road conditions ahead. The fact that makes me very light on the brakes is a side effect.

Steve.