Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys

With sierra drop shackles, does every drop shackle need to have new brackets welded on and shock hopps in the front? Or can you just replace your standard shackles with drop shackles?

Regards

Drop shackles are a standard replacement, no chassis mods necessary, but
the advantage of putting in shock hoops is that it allows you to run a longer
shock which means you can use the extra travel. IMO there is no point
running drop shackles with your standard shock mounts as the longest
shock you can put on it only 50/60mm over standard. So there's no
huge gain.

P@nda wrote:Drop shackles are a standard replacement, no chassis mods necessary, but
the advantage of putting in shock hoops is that it allows you to run a longer
shock which means you can use the extra travel. IMO there is no point
running drop shackles with your standard shock mounts as the longest
shock you can put on it only 50/60mm over standard. So there's no
huge gain.

Well said

get it up there wrote:

P@nda wrote:. IMO there is no point
running drop shackles

Well said

Even better said

Do a search. This has been covered a gazillion times. Drop shackles are pointless.

Steve.

Steve, i tried searching. i could not find much info on why not to run drop shackles. i have just installed some on my sierra and it gave me 25% more drop. how is this not an advantage? not trying to be and ass, i just would like to understand.

drop shackles are good when used with the right bump stops. so as when one wheel is pushed up into the guard it levers against the bump stop forcing the other wheel into the ground, if your not hitting your bump stop as either it isnt there or your to high in the spring lift, then yes the drop shackle is pointless as it will give more travel but the wheel is only free hanging and there is no force to drive it in the ground to find traction.
personaly i am a fan of drop shackles when used right IMO

i love them they are awesome the rear is setup fully with shock bar and shocks. the front still needs the hoops and shocks but flexes pretty good. puts a 35' tyre below the sills

Drop shackles are a means of providing "uncontrolled" travel, just like when a coil spring goes loose. Once a drop shackle starts unfolding, the car is no longer sprung - it's just flopping. Uncontrolled travel has no advantages, only disadvantages.

The problem is that the appeal of drop shackles (and loose springs) is based on a faulty premise. Surely if more wheel travel = more capability, then any means of achieving more wheel travel must make for a more capable car.

That's not true. Drop shackles look great for posing on obstacles and they promise a cheap increase in wheel travel, but they won't make your car more capable. Really, they wont - they just make it look more capable.

As has already been mentioned, they don't provide useful traction on the drooped wheel. Yes, with clever spring choice, bumpstop location etc it is possible to achieve some downward pressure on the drooped wheel, but it will never rival that of a sprung wheel. Why is that a problem? Well, in the case of a light car like a sierra with a heavy wheel and tyre, the tail wags the dog - the drooped wheel doesn't have enough traction to drive itself out of the hole so it's acting as an anchor.

Because you can't choose when a drop shackle unloads, 6" after your car looked super extreme with its drop shackles unfolded, the cars weight has transferred and the uphill drop shackles are now unfolding and the car is falling off the hill.

How do you even deal with damping a drop shackle? it has zero rate so it's overdamped once unfolded, hindering what little traction it might be able to add in a dynamic situation (that's when the car is in motion)

They are terrible is you experience wheelspin whilst they are unfolded - there's no spring rate (and very little traction) to control the drooped wheel so the tend to slap and bounce about.

In theory, if all you did was crawl (and I mean CRAWL, not bump) high traction obstacles, ran about 1" of compression travel, or none at all, and ran some traction bars or something to combat the floppyness once unloaded, drop shackles might work. The thing is, under those situations you don't need springs at all- pivots would do. THe fact is, even crawling is dynamic, and once you introduce some power, a bounce, some wheelspin etc, uncontrolled travel is a nightmare.

I've seen a completely amazing car with not only drop shackles but Z boxes on the front of the spring hanger to allow the front of the spring to fall away too. It's very impressive (it also runs home made portal boxes, 270:1 crawl ratio etc etc etc) but there's such a massive amount of design and engineering in it's construction that it makes a mockery of the idea you can bolt in some drop shackles, weld on some shock hoops and have a functional suspension.

Steve.

PS whilst I've never owned a car with drop shackles, a number of club members here in Vic played with them and I've built a few 3/4 elliptic cars. 3/4 elliptic is much, much better than a drop shackle as it's controlled (and tuneable) travel. It's still not ideal, and not as good as a longer spring though.

mcwilly wrote:i love them they are awesome the rear is setup fully with shock bar and shocks. the front still needs the hoops and shocks but flexes pretty good. puts a 35' tyre below the sills

My ruf spua puts a 34 tyre below the sill front or rear without drop shackles so they are definately not required for decent suspension travel.
personally I belive they are an simply a dangerous idea on a vehicle not set up for them and doubt they add any real benifits unless also setup properly.

offroader-rama wrote:drop shackles are good when used with the right bump stops. so as when one wheel is pushed up into the guard it levers against the bump stop forcing the other wheel into the ground, if your not hitting your bump stop as either it isnt there or your to high in the spring lift, then yes the drop shackle is pointless as it will give more travel but the wheel is only free hanging and there is no force to drive it in the ground to find traction.
personaly i am a fan of drop shackles when used right IMO

I can see that. However this only works when the axle is "flexing". Not when you are on a steep incline/decline and both floppy shackles unload together. If it were my car I'd be investing in a cage, and stocking up on spare undies

i think half the fun of driving a zook, is the lack of flex

Highway-Star wrote:

offroader-rama wrote:drop shackles are good when used with the right bump stops. so as when one wheel is pushed up into the guard it levers against the bump stop forcing the other wheel into the ground, if your not hitting your bump stop as either it isnt there or your to high in the spring lift, then yes the drop shackle is pointless as it will give more travel but the wheel is only free hanging and there is no force to drive it in the ground to find traction.
personaly i am a fan of drop shackles when used right IMO

I can see that. However this only works when the axle is "flexing". Not when you are on a steep incline/decline and both floppy shackles unload together. If it were my car I'd be investing in a cage, and stocking up on spare undies

U'd still have to over come the weight on the springs before this happens. Would be a pretty extreme RE: nearly fall end for end before this happened on such an incline i would have thought.

The problem isn't on inclines as much as it's on simultaneous inclines and side angles.

Steve.

im with pyro

JrZook wrote:

Highway-Star wrote:

offroader-rama wrote:drop shackles are good when used with the right bump stops. so as when one wheel is pushed up into the guard it levers against the bump stop forcing the other wheel into the ground, if your not hitting your bump stop as either it isnt there or your to high in the spring lift, then yes the drop shackle is pointless as it will give more travel but the wheel is only free hanging and there is no force to drive it in the ground to find traction.
personaly i am a fan of drop shackles when used right IMO

I can see that. However this only works when the axle is "flexing". Not when you are on a steep incline/decline and both floppy shackles unload together. If it were my car I'd be investing in a cage, and stocking up on spare undies

U'd still have to over come the weight on the springs before this happens. Would be a pretty extreme RE: nearly fall end for end before this happened on such an incline i would have thought.

It is supprising how easily it actully happens. (yes I ran drop\flop\wacky shackles) for a while.

my zooks are far from standed and i agree that drop shackles are not the first option to find flex.
i have two lwb sierras the one with the ca18det, i use drop shackles on is spoa locked hilux diffs, lifted around 16 inch's, 37's, custom springs around 150mm longer than standed and a track bars with rancho 9000 shocks, so its purpose built my other lwb sierra is vitara 1600, 6 inch lift, 29's, ruf, extended shackles modified springs, modified commodore and torana shocks and still gets around 3 foot of flex.
on the second one is a daily driver, but i am pondering doing a shackle reversel on the front and useing extended springs and drop shakles,
as its at the front of the car with the shackle under your feet and a track bar running back to the front i cant see a disadvantage except the need for a custom drive shaft to allow for the extra flex.

i think that drop shackels are for wank factor if u got a twin locked zook u dont really need felx if one wheel on the ground your still going move

offroader-rama wrote:my zooks are far from standed and i agree that drop shackles are not the first option to find flex.
i have two lwb sierras the one with the ca18det, i use drop shackles on is spoa locked hilux diffs, lifted around 16 inch's, 37's, custom springs around 150mm longer than standed and a track bars with rancho 9000 shocks, so its purpose built my other lwb sierra is vitara 1600, 6 inch lift, 29's, ruf, extended shackles modified springs, modified commodore and torana shocks and still gets around 3 foot of flex.
on the second one is a daily driver, but i am pondering doing a shackle reversel on the front and useing extended springs and drop shakles,
as its at the front of the car with the shackle under your feet and a track bar running back to the front i cant see a disadvantage except the need for a custom drive shaft to allow for the extra flex.

If your going to that kind of fabrication hassle ... whey not link and coil it ?
A basic three link would be a similar amount of work and I reckon would yeild a much better result, I am thinking of doing a raduis arm front and rear on my little red wagon.. not after huge flex and all that, basically ride comfort .. and it is something I have always wanted to do..
Rangie arms and bushes sierra diffs front diff a couple of inches forward .. rear 1 inch or so back .. flatish panhards try to keep it neat and factory looking as possible.. 235/85 16s .. I just got a set of 255's for the pajero

offroader-rama wrote:6 inch lift, 29's.

is that a typo? 6" ift to run 29's, surely that cant be right

lol no its not a typo its 6 inches with 29's, its 2 inch body, 2 inch extended shackles and 2 inch reset springs.
i had it with standed springs then i sold the car to a mate it started to get the sierra lean so he put wide track diffs in it and had the srpings reset and lifted 2 inches, i would have had them reset to standed hieght but i wasnt there ! but then i brought the car back from him still flexes realy well though as for tyres the 29's it runs are a pretty chunky soft mud retreads!!! (they look much bigger than a 29 true)
and work so good i just want to leave them on there till they die, but i resently got a set of 31's for it but when i put them on the car the steering wobbled to the shit house I put the 29's back on and took it for a wheel alinement and you do not want to know how far out the caster was !!!
i am in the process of rewelding a saddle to correct the caster then i will put the 31's on so it sits better i will miss those 29's though they have done it proud many a time and after 6 yrs they are still 80% tread !!! i would reconmend them any day for about $80 each there freaken awsoime no good for a big truck but a toy sierra A+++++

love mud
the laws here are much stricter than vic so a shackle reversel wouldnt stick out as much as coils i am trying to keep this car as a daily driver untill i finish my patrol then unfurtunitly i will have to sell it i have too many cars, and 2 tuff long wheel base sierra's is just greedy lol

offroader-rama wrote:love mud
the laws here are much stricter than vic so a shackle reversel wouldnt stick out as much as coils i am trying to keep this car as a daily driver untill i finish my patrol then unfurtunitly i will have to sell it i have too many cars, and 2 tuff long wheel base sierra's is just greedy lol

who said anything about legal ?
A three link done neatly will be as unobtrusive as a shackle reversal and a 15 cm lift I would have thought.