Outer Limits 4x4 Board

A few weeks ago my one and a half year run with my NH Pajero ended when I rolled it 7 times down to the bottom of a steep rocky climb. It was raining and dark and I shouldn’t have been doing something that hard in the wet but its a bit late to ask questions and I shouldn’t be complaining after walking out of a wreck like that alive.

Fixing the truck would mean replacing the body and it doesn’t make sense to do something like that on a 330,000km motor that might need a re-build anyway. So my initial idea was to buy a 3.5/2.8 NJ - NL Pajero and swap over bits like the Snorkel, bulbar & locker.
Before I rolled it, my old NH was a very capable truck. With a 2” body lift, front locker & a set if Simexes it would do anything my mate’s 50 grand Cruiser would do but its Achilles heel is the torsion bar IFS.
With the next truck I’d probably want something that does everything from touring to competitions which probably means Coil Sprung, Twin live-axle and hopefully a Diesel. And I’ve narrowed my options down to GQ Patrol, NK/NL Pajero or a Landrover Defender. My question to you is, are the Patrols really what people worship them for?

Yeah, I’m confused – I do want twin live-axle but I don’t know if the pros outweigh the cons.

Also, are short wheel bases heaps easier to roll? I wouldn’t mind a shorty Patrol or Paj but if they’re higher than long I don’t want to repeat what I just did to the old truck.

Shorty's are not necessarily easier to roll (side to side), but are a bit more susceptable to endovers goin up/down hills due to the relative height of the CofG in relation to wheelbase

CofG is same height as LWB but the wheelbase is smaller, when scaling up the wheelbase to same as the LWB the CofG is proportionately higher. Likewise more relative compression/extension of the suspension, springing the ends of the vehicle skyward when you hit rocks or other obstacles.

Zooks know this phenomenon well.

What hill were you attempting?

Yeah the problem isn’t really scaling a hill, its dropping the wheel in a 2 foot rut while scaling a 40 degree hill. I wouldn’t mind a shorty at all because even when I tour I pack pretty light, I just don’t want to roll another truck.
I rolled the Paj on a track near the Thompsons Dam. It was the rocky section on the top of Flats TK, there is a chicken track around it but I was being an idiot.

I think I need 5 posts to post pictures or links, so I’ll put up some pictures asap

Land rover discovery mate. Coil springs lots of aftermarket parts available diesel engine is same as defender and there cheap.... Otherwise I'd go paj tdi as I personally think as good as patrols and toyotas are there not worth the asking price but that's just my opinion....

honestly it is horses for course so to speak.. every 4wd has an advantage and a disadvantage. I have a gq that started as our family car as well as the Mrs had her own car. it was perfect for towing the van up the beach, cruiser pk trips,glass house mtn excursions. It was always good offroad but my mates 80 series was sooooo much nicer onroad and 90% or more as capable off road in similiar format.
basically it depends on what you want to do at the end of the vehicles life. buy a paj or defender and slowly go from a nice tourer to a comp truck and you will spend a fair few $. buy a dirty old gq diesel and there is so much aftermarket stuff 2nd hand or my mates,mate has that sitting around. they are capable ,cheap and everyone has one. for a reason.
we have used ours as a comp truck/play toy for about 4yrs now and only 4 months ago taken the 3rd row of seats out.
in my opinion a wagon is nicer offroad and on than a shorty as an average. what ever you decide put a cage in it as a first modification. well worth the money.
but always buy/build something that YOU like and enjoy. your choice is always the right one. have fun.

I totally agree with what you’re saying. I was leaning towards the GQ because of the lower price compared to Toyotas and the availability of spares, I don’t think I can afford an 80 Series and even if I buy one I’ll be scared to wreck it.
With the Pajero I have quite a bit of accessories for it and all the knowledge of owning, fixing & running one. I also have a spare truck to scavenge parts off. I had a great run with the old truck and with the right mods it’ll keep up with anything. Is there any reason why people don’t compete in the smaller trucks like Pajeros & Parados? IFS could be that answer to my own question but once the front is locked I didn’t really have any problems.

I don’t know about the discovery, my mate has one and it has been a bit of a lemon. Even besides the reliability issues, you need to do heaps of work to it to fit bigger tyres, spares are expensive because they are all from England and Landrover owners are rich AND off-road it wasn’t any better than my Pajero. I don’t mean to upset any Landrover owners, but I think with the disco they got the basics right and then put too much icing on the cake

I think the at the end of the day I’ll buy the next good truck I find for a good deal, regardless of whether it’s a Pajero or a 60 Series. The mud is drying up and I’m sick of driving a little car. Thanks heaps for all your input.

Just put up the pictures

Gasolinejunkie wrote:I don’t know about the discovery, my mate has one and it has been a bit of a lemon. Even besides the reliability issues, you need to do heaps of work to it to fit bigger tyres, spares are expensive because they are all from England and Landrover owners are rich AND off-road it wasn’t any better than my Pajero. I don’t mean to upset any Landrover owners, but I think with the disco they got the basics right and then put too much icing on the cake

You gotta be shitting me. RICH

You can fit 33" tyres with a 2" lift and some flares, then gearing and axles become the next problem to go bigger.

Spares are quite easy to obtain from the likes of Rovacraft and the like and despite what people tell you are on par with the Japanese counterparts. Just don't by from a stealer.

Yes there are lemons about but only those that haven't been serviced and maintained properly. I've also heard lots of bad stories about dealers being useless and killing the reputation of the brand too. FYI, Defenders are the same in a lot of regards and will be just as bad if they haven't been looked after. They share the same engine and gearbox (diesels) and everything else can be ripped out if it breaks or easily fixed (Discovery series 1 only though). Steer clear of the SRS equipped models too if you want to do serious mods to and stay legal.

By the sounds of it though the mitsi looks like the best bet. You already have half the bits, know them well and will be able to spot a lemon form far off. SAS can fix the torsion bar front if your that keen

Those pic's certainly show how well the paj is built to hold up, after rolling 7 times nice to see you could walk away uninjured. Don't think my troopy would hold up as well.

Just a thought, if you were in another vehicle, would the same thing have happened? ie due to the track anyone would have rolled over as well or do you think it was due to the perceived shortcoming's of ifs, hence your desire for GQ?

I had a diesel GQ wagon, bit of a slug but to be expected, out of the box stock very capable off road, minor mods near unstopable.

I love my rover but also miss my maverick(s). Reading what you've written and what you want to do, my gut feeling is that you want a GQ Patrol/Maverick.

Overall the LWB is more stable but the SWB looks way cooler

Pajeros are cheap as chips .. I am considering buying a spare one just for the flares and body cladding to put on my NL. Might pick up one with the suspension seats to make it a bit more comfy as well ..

The pajero is a more comfortable vehicle by far, there is more legroom in the front .. and you wont be like every other bloke out there in a GQ.

If you must spend up SAS a paj .. use some rear radius arms and get into it.

well i suppose all you need to do is have a look at what dragged him out, i remember that night well it looks slightly worse in the daylight though.

just wondering how you found the paj... i have a 92 nh too and find its a little light on power. it struggles to pull a tandem trailer half loaded where my xf falcon could do it with a pallet of grout and tools in the back (1tonne+) easy.

also any recommendations for mods?

that and i think i saw ur paj on facebook. your friends with joshi phillip? small world...

@Stuee – Tomorrow I’m going to talk to a few blokes at Les Richmond Auto about the TDi motors and owning, running & modifying a Defender or Discovery.

holeyhardtop wrote:Just a thought, if you were in another vehicle, would the same thing have happened? ie due to the track anyone would have rolled over as well or do you think it was due to the perceived shortcoming's of ifs, hence your desire for GQ?

Thats exactly what I’m asking myself. I know there were half a dozen other times I nearly went over because of the zero flex in the front suspension. At this particular time even a Unimog would have rolled it climbing that hill if a wheel got hungup on one of those rock ledges. It was raining and I wasn’t thinking, I’d like to blame it on the IFS but honestly, anything in that situation would have rolled.

chimpboy wrote:I love my rover but also miss my maverick(s). Reading what you've written and what you want to do, my gut feeling is that you want a GQ Patrol/Maverick.

Overall the LWB is more stable but the SWB looks way cooler

Yeah, brain says Pajero but heart says Patrol

love_mud wrote: If you must spend up SAS a paj .. use some rear radius arms and get into it.

Do you have any details? Prices? Or links? There are a few people who do it themselves but my fabrications skills aren’t that good.

Ye Olde Rangie wrote:well i suppose all you need to do is have a look at what dragged him out, i remember that night well it looks slightly worse in the daylight though.

Yeah, that Patrol was pretty sick. Do you know what setup he had?

dmck wrote:just wondering how you found the paj... i have a 92 nh too and find its a little light on power. it struggles to pull a tandem trailer half loaded where my xf falcon could do it with a pallet of grout and tools in the back (1tonne+) easy.

also any recommendations for mods?

that and i think i saw ur paj on facebook. your friends with joshi phillip? small world...

True, the 3Ltr V6 had the power of a 4cylinder and the fuel economy of a V8. With a set of big tyres even overtaking was a task. Off-road I didn’t care, I used to waddle around all day in low-range so it didn’t matter.
With the right mods my Paj did anything the Patrols and Cruisers could do and the weight advantage made it better at hill climbing.
The best thing you could do to your Paj is a 2” body lift and a front locker. In a few months I’ll be wrecking the bits on my truck so let me know if your interested in any of it.
Yes, I do know Joshi Philip! Small world it is..

Also, whats the difference between the 4.2 Diesels and the 2.8s? I believe the 2.8s are underpowered (obviously) but its a much newer motor and even came with the early GUs

Gasolinejunkie wrote:

love_mud wrote: If you must spend up SAS a paj .. use some rear radius arms and get into it.

Do you have any details? Prices? Or links? There are a few people who do it themselves but my fabrications skills aren’t that good.
..

Have a look at the pics of mine in the pajero pics of your rig thread, i got 4B fabrications to do my front arms, I bet he's still got the Jig for it too Mines still a 3link front too

The 3.5 kills the 3.0 . (half as much power again and buckets more torque) The 3.0 is a 100Kw motor 220ish Nm of torque .
The 3.5 is 140Kw (I have a 155Kw version in mine from a later model magna) with 310Nm of torque .. so you can see the 3.5 is a way gruntier motor, does not seem to haev the head issues the 3.0 had either.

love_mud wrote:The 3.5 kills the 3.0 . (half as much power again and buckets more torque) The 3.0 is a 100Kw motor 220ish Nm of torque .
The 3.5 is 140Kw (I have a 155Kw version in mine from a later model magna) with 310Nm of torque .. so you can see the 3.5 is a way gruntier motor, does not seem to haev the head issues the 3.0 had either.

Yup, damn right. The 3.0 ltrs suffer from leaky valve seats, overheating, headgaskets and the other annoying thing is everytime you go through a river you get condensation in the distributor

Initially I was going to get a 3.5 and swap over parts but now me thinks Patrol