Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys,

hoping to purchase a 93 lwb manual vit soon. i used to own a 92 swb with 3inch bodylift and 3inch spring lift and 31's, being young a nieve on my previous truck` didnt lower arms in the front or anything took the shops advice not having done my research ended up with a truck that blew CV's at any given chance, terrible flex and bouncy as a horse and cart.

this time round was still going to do 3inch body lift and 31's (hopefully depending on advice)... was wondering if anyone could shed some light on suspension upgrades, shock and spring combo's, guard trimming.

heard that 3inch kits place a bit of stress on cv's... not entirely on a budget but would prefer to get the truck locked before doing cv upgrades.
there is alot of talk about the 3inch calmini kit but i also read that you gain better flex out of using a 2inch lift and possibly small spacer or am i totally wrong?


any help would be fantastic thanks

Firstly, what sort of driving do you do? i.e. Do you NEED 3 + 3 or is it for pose?

i think the calmini kit includes a spacer for the front and rear diffs that drops them back down an inch. so really a 2" lift is similar clearance. calmini is the only one ive heard of that do it properly otherwise just put a 2" lift front and rear with commodore shocks in the rear. they give awsome travel. u might have to get custom springs made up that are 395 long to stop them falling out at full flex but still give 2" lift at ride height. u still need a rear diff spacer in the rear for this as when i flex its less stress on the hemi joint on top of the diff. all the above is info ive gathered talking to people but not tried myself.

6 inches to run 31's ..
You may have your reasons but sounds to much to me.
I would stick to a 2+2 ( 2 inch suspension 2 inch body as a max)
Old man emu struts will give you the most flex as they are by far the longest strut for a vit and will keep your CV's happier (I am not saying they wont break, just less likley to) and the bommadore shock and I think it was 180sx coils in the rear .. the bommadore shocks are not ideal though . they are long but valved to suit to a fat bummed passanger saloon not a smallish 4x4.

i read the 3'' BL part now. i would seriously go against that, even a BL in a vitara at all. u have to lift alot of other things also to suit. even if u do all this work at the end of the day u will still have a mediocre 4x4. if u really want offroad go a sierra and do it properly. they have 4" more clearance to start off with than a vitara and are tougher. u will have to also change your POS paper weak alloy front diff in your vitara to a GV steel one.

Why on earth do you need 31" tyres on a vitara ?

Vitaras work best with mild modifications, even though their not as tough as a siera if done properly they can be a very tough little truck.

Modifying a car to the point that everything is under stress makes it less capable than when its bog standard.

I agree with the last post, work out what you want out of a four wheel drive. If you want something with massive tyres your probably looking at the wrong vehicle

i have 31's with only a 2" suspension lift... a bit of guard 'trimming' does the job...

3 inch body? do you really want to roll over at any given chance?

i have only snapped 1 cv in nearly 3 years, but about 15 rear axels have been snapped due to 31's, air locker and big right foot

i run 2 inch lift with 31's and never had a prolem although i did need to chop at guards. a 2 inchbody lift would help with this alot but i would not go much more than that. as far as a sierra having more clearence, where are you measuring from, cause it is about the sme from pumpkin to pumpkin

Wow, you vitara owners sure seem to have low self esteem or something

There's nothing wrong with a Vitara as a 4WD - there's a strong case that they're superior to a sierra - they are certainly more stable, the suspension works very well - (Especially the IFS) and they have factory auto and power steer.

I've never owned a vitara, but I've spent plenty of time playing with them.

There's no reason to run a 3" BL. I don't think there's a problem with a 2" BL on a vitara - I've made and fitted a heap, but I'd be looking for a good reason to run a 2" BL because you won't need one with a 31" tyre.

Use OME front struts. They are the best strut available.

There's no reason to lower the arms in the front - It will just screw with the geometry of the CV's, and apart from that it's a massive amount of work.

The Calmini 3" kit is a mixed bag. The front struts are terrible. The rear A arm is a waste of time - the Heim joint is worthless bling and adds no travel - a spacer on the stock arm is as effective and engineerable (the Calmini heim joint isn't)

The front A arms are great, as are the diff drop brackets (less a "drop" than a "roll") These are very important for getting more travel out of the CV's.

The springs are weird. They are super long. The rears are cool, but the fronts are way, way, way too long. They kinda work with a bar and winch, but Calmini use them as bumpstops - they bottom the spring to prevent overcompressing the front struts. This is TERRIBLE suspension design, and is why Calmini claim the springs "settle" - coils should never "settle" unless they are being bottomed. go figure. Also, Calmini have designed the front spring rate to take into account offset rims. More rim offset lowers the effective spring rate of an IFS suspension. Stock rim offset will make the car stiffer than Calmini intended.

The rear shocks are OK.

The brake lines supplied aren't ADR legal.

The front Strut spacers aren't required if you use OME struts as they are as long as the calmini struts with the spacers installed.

In short, the parts in the calmini kit are quite useful even if the whole kit doesn't work very well in its entirety.

As for flex - flex is a function of shock length, and bumpstop spacing - the calmini kit is fine, but it's no more than a non-calmini setup with the same strut/shock length.

Shocks? There's plenty of ideas out there if you are willing to run bumpstop spacers. As much as I don't like Rancho's - Part # 99012 would be a good option for the rear.

Guard trimming? This is a 465746565847X better idea than more lift to clear tyres.

Here's an ancient photo of LJxtreem's Hum-Vit:



That's 33" tyres with about 1" of suspension lift. It was all bumpstop spacing and guard chopping.

Lockers? To lock the front you'll want to run a steel diff from a manual V6 GV (and some XL-7s) or the front end will explode. Then knock yourself out.

CV strength is fine so long as up don't overextend them with excessive strut spacing and/or you run calmini diff drop brackets. There's lots of tech about converting the driver's side CV to a tripod mount like the passenger's side so it doesn't pop out of the diff or bearing supporting the existing CV. There's some good tech about this on Auszookers. Once you've done this, I don't believe CV's are a weak point. OBviously the less angle you run on the CV's the longer they last and the more torque they can handle.

As an aside - It sounds that you're keen on some harder terrain if you want lockers and flex. Do yourself a favour and buy an auto vitara. They are much, much better to drive than the manual in hard terrain. It's also an excellent auto - the Aisin-Warner AW-4. Budget for some transfer gears too.

Bear in mind that with 31's your road gearing will be a bit marginal, and there's no way easy/cheap way of lowering the road gearing of an EFI vitara - they already run 5.12 diffs.

Just some ideas.

Steve.

geez thanks for all your advice guys

seem to clear a heap of issues for me...

the rancho's seem to be the shock ive used in the past and seem like a really good idea aswell as the ome struts.... what sort of springs does anyone recommend, gonna go with a two inch lift and as for bumpstop spacers what sort of length would be recommended. Pretty Keen on 31inch BFG KM2 with a negative 28offset rim so dont mind doing some cutting. still tossing up the bodylift but 2inch seems to be the consensus. what sort of other parts do i need to replace in this lift and brand.... might compose my own kit rather than buy a pre wrapped one!


thanks again for your help... especially you steve cheers mate!!

Rancho's are a poor quality shock and the adjustability is a gimmick, but they will bolt in and the valving is appropriately soft.

Buy bumpstop spacers from ARB - I don't have the part number but the spacer is an XL-7 front part. Most ARB stores have no idea ARB/OME make it. They work both front and rear and can be stacked.

If you space the bumpstops you won't need a body lift. Less work and a lower car is better than more work and a higher car for the same tyre size.

Springs aren't important. You can use spring spacers, or any number of OME part numbers, or GV/XL-7 springs. It's not an exact science.

Be prepared to use camber bolts if you stay with stock front arms. Calmini arms have some camber correction built in to them.

Steve.

with 2 inches on mine i didnt need to put camber bolts in... my camber is 100% perfect, so do the lift, take it for a wheel alignment and work it out from there. my tyres also wear evenly, i have seen some vitaras with the calmini 3" kit and they chew the front tyres out

I agree that sometimes Calmini arms seem to need camber adjustment, but it's also not normal that 2" of lift requires no camber correction. That's why ARB won't lift 2" - they normally run about 35mm because they don't offer camber correction.

Steve.

re drill you front a arm rear bolt hole like thishttp://www.zukiworld.com/month_120102/feature_ ... endmod.htm
31 will clear with out mch guard triming on the front
+ 10 offset rims are wat u need to clear the 31 with out a body lift but make sure u extend steering stops
i made diff drop brackets out of 10mm plate they are bigger then any u can buy but this lets me run 4in lift in the front and still have a ok cv angle
out door auto sell the longest struts for a vit they are 75 mm longer then stock
td gemeni front springs in the rear and v6 manual gv front springs in the front will give you 3" lift
u will need 40mm rear bump stop to clear 31 and trap the coil
u need a 60mm rear diff spacer
im loving my vit it out drive a lot of sierras i go wheeling with

Gwagensteve wrote:Rancho's are a poor quality shock and the adjustability is a gimmick, but they will bolt in and the valving is appropriately soft.

I have to disagree that the Rancho's are a gimmick.

I have them on the Rear of my vitara, i run them on the softest setting on the road which is just right.

However under load when i go camping i dial them up to reduce rebound and make it more stable. I've had three different sets of shocks on the car and they are with out a doubt the best, the dial makes a huge difference to the behaviour of the rear of the car and allows a soft ride without having to worry about the car being to unstable when loaded.

ended up getting a swb 94 efi 1.6 for a steal instead of the lwb

so do suspension setups change this is what i was thinking:

Tyres/Wheels....
31x15 Bfg KM2
15x8 neg28 offset

2inch Bodylift

Suspension.....
ome front struts
rancho shocks
coils??? thinking just get OME but unsure
wasnt gonna worry about bumpstops due to bodylift
anything else suspension wise that i need and part ideas???

cheers
thanks again everyone for your help just wanna nut it all out before i fork out!!!

just doing more research here and there does the ome front struts come indifferent sizes because someone has posted that the ome kit came with 30mm coil spacers... correct me if ime wrong but that would give you only an inch and a bit not 2inch total. happy to be corrected or is there different kits one giving new springs and one giving coil spacers???

sorry for the million questions!

No, there's only one strut length. Coil length or spacing has nothing to do with strut length.

30mm coil spacers will give (theoretically) 60mm of lift at the wheel on the front- the coils are approximately 1/2 way between the chassis and the wheel

Gwagensteve wrote: Buy bumpstop spacers from ARB - I don't have the part number but the spacer is an XL-7 front part. Most ARB stores have no idea ARB/OME make it. They work both front and rear and can be stacked.


Steve.

Steve can u please put up the part number for the bump stop spacers you mentioned above. i desperatly need some and have rung a few ARB stores with this info and they say they have nothing listed at all. thanks.

gumtree wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote: Buy bumpstop spacers from ARB - I don't have the part number but the spacer is an XL-7 front part. Most ARB stores have no idea ARB/OME make it. They work both front and rear and can be stacked.


Steve.

Steve can u please put up the part number for the bump stop spacers you mentioned above. i desperatly need some and have rung a few ARB stores with this info and they say they have nothing listed at all. thanks.

FK28 is the number. and don't 'stack' them as this will leave the stud on the bumpstop with little thread contact into the chassis.

thanks Jewblow

Some trimming of the studs is required but I'm very happy with thread engagement on the car I'm working on.

Steve.

joeblow wrote:

gumtree wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote: Buy bumpstop spacers from ARB - I don't have the part number but the spacer is an XL-7 front part. Most ARB stores have no idea ARB/OME make it. They work both front and rear and can be stacked.


Steve.

Steve can u please put up the part number for the bump stop spacers you mentioned above. i desperatly need some and have rung a few ARB stores with this info and they say they have nothing listed at all. thanks.

FK28 is the number. and don't 'stack' them as this will leave the stud on the bumpstop with little thread contact into the chassis.

Can these spacers (FK28) be used on the rear of a GV as well? The bumpstops in mine are situated within the coil itself and is cone shaped. I've got the standard OME suspension and wonder if bumpstop spacers are worth it.

AFAIK yes. As the front of a vitara is the same as the rear of a vitara, and we are using XL-7 spacers in the front of a vitara, I can't see why they won't work in the rear of your GV

Steve

i rang back the store that said they dont have them and the manager has been there for 10 yrs and he's never heard of them having bumpstop spacers, with the part number and whataya know, they have em.

they had to ring head office to get details on them as they didn't have any and apparently they mainly use them for their kits when they install them. They are $25 a pair he said if i wanted to buy them.

if i need 50-60mm spacers i dont think it will work so im arranging a 4x4 shop to make be up a pair from 50mm alloy body lift blocks.