daddylonglegs wrote:Yes BJ, this thread did vere off topic somewhat, but you get that.
The guys in the states that are starting to use offset diffs again are privateers who have finally caught on. not mainstream vehicle manufacturers who seem to have forgotten how to design proper off road vehicles. The most capable truck I ever built was a Landrover with dual wheels front and back. the inner wheels were 7.50's the outers Q78 Swampers. The drastically offset Dana 60 diffs were virtually inside the inner duals, so it was nearly impossible to get hung up on the diffs.
Bill.
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Bill, you make a very good point, it is clear, you have a vast knowledge of four wheel drives and their workings, it is also clear that you have many years of experience in driving, and building, which is quite admirable really.
Also, Bill, I understand what you are saying about mainstream manufacturing. I am going to stick up for the mainstream manufacturers, and say, that the people buying the new cars are determining what WE the 4x4 community will drive in the future, therefore the manufacturers are meeting the demand, people want IFS, the companies will make it. Its a capital system, they are private companies, I will staunchly defend there actions, and decisions to manufacture and sell the vehicles that are quieter, lower, safer, have less un-sprung weight, and greater steering and braking control, in on and offroad environments. A lot of these favourable qualities come with independant suspension. It also has its place in racing, and off road driving, not necessarily rock crawling, always, but a deserved place non the less.
As a percentage of the market, I hate to say it, but at this time, and for the forseeable future, we are an insignificant few, who, while hating the new cars, will remain brand loyal, as they will seem to be "best of a bad bunch" and will continue to purchase our chosen brands, regardless of the offroad capability. From a sales perspective, many of us will never purchase a new car, but keep the used sales ticking over, and for the time being there is plenty of vehicles to satisfy us, the offroad enthusiasts, the builders and the wheelers.
Having said that, down the track the market may call for a limited production run, for a special offroad vehicle, a retro-cruiser or landie, that will sort of impress the enthusiasts and sell to the both markets, almost like the monaro, or the Brock commodores, the Jeep Rubicon and so on.
Anyways, enough of all of that, lets see the pictures of your landrover, the way you described it "Dana 60 diffs" seemed to suggest it had a Dana 60 front, and rear, that is something I would really like to see pictures of!
How drastically offset was your Dana 60? Was it stock series landrover? if so I would not call that drastically offset. In my mind, drastically offset is something like this. (see attached picture)
From simply looking back, even in "the dim dark ages" I see that many vehicle manufacturers simply copied off each other.
LandCruiser copied LandRover, in terms of offset diffs. Except Landcruiser increased the axle size, diff size and strength.
Hilux have had a centred rear forever, GQ drivelines are simply a copy, but roughly 50% bigger in the transfer case and bigger in the axles and diff centres.
This trend continues, only now, we have Independant suspension, cleaner motors, and, of course the mod cons. I love cup holders and centre consoles and on-board DVD players, and map holders and takeaway hooks, handles evrywhere, storage pockets up the wazoo, and so on, that new vehicles have. They ride nicer, handle better and fare quite well offroad.
When it comes to competition, it is a different story, it is all about custom offroad vehicles, buggies, and the like, and that is where the future lies for most of us (the rockcrawlers, mud pluggers, desert racers, and importantly your type as the builders)
One last thing, I see you complaining about the new vehicles and this and that, and yet, you took a series landy, modified it to the point that landrover would deny its existence, to make it more capable for you personally. I would challenge that a man of your ability and talent could take a brand new land rover/range rover and turn it into an unstoppable offroad machine with a similar amount of work that has gone into your current four wheel drive, why then, are the current vehicles a bad thing?
The problem is us, we want something unique, something different and this cannot be supplied, due to problems with other people not wanting exactly what we want, and constructing each vehicle individually certainly is not cost effective, nor would you or I pay the money it is worth, so we decide to build it ourselves. So the problem is us. Vehicles have come a long way since Henry Ford first said: "They can have any colour, as long as its black" Any person, can purcahse a new vehicle right now, and tick all sorts of boxes, from performance and stereo options, to wheel and tyre combinations, personalised plates, seats, paint jobs, trim design, and so on. Clearly vehicle manufacturers are evolving to meet the demands and needs of the mainstream market, and this is where a business should position itself to maximise sales, and ultimately pay dividends for shareholders.
(particularly Tiny/scrapper, and copies of same.)
