Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok just an update!

failed engineers cert on three things while i was there and then a phone call from him to knock me back on another thing!
things he now wants done
1) Two red reflectors to be fitted at rear next to tail lights
( you'd think the tail lights themselves would be reflective enough) but all good $3.60 fixed that
2) Nyloc nuts to be used with the child restraint anchorages ( fare enough but i used the nuts and bolts that came with the packaging sold on the shelf with the saftey regs stamp on it) easy fix took some out of my spare nuts and bolts box in shed and all sorted
3) 31 inch wheels to be fitted ( no probs i left 33s on there for something for him to pick and make him happy) gonna put my 31s off my rodeo for inspection

but the stupidest thing is he tells me in a phone call after id payed and gone home that hes not happy with a 3 inch lift so he wants the suspension back to a 2 inch lift but asks me if i know measurements etc for him to pass a 2" lift!
WTF no probs buddy i don't know either so will a receipt by suspension place for a 2" lift with my number plate on it make yah happy?

he says sweet that will do and ill pass it as a 2 inch at no extra cost etc!


pretty tense inspection session and went over it with a fine tooth comb but all in all im very happy with the results and he was more than happy with my efforts to get it right!

next Tuesday wont come fast enough when he has a quick look at the corrections he wanted and all is well!

So saying that, how does he actually know that it has a 3" lift in it? FFS.

coxy321 wrote:So saying that, how does he actually know that it has a 3" lift in it? FFS.

cause he seen it a bit higher than standard and ask me and i farked up and told him hoping to engineer the lift aswell!

its good that u are keeping us updated this will hellp me when i go to get mine engineered, let us know how it goes when its registered and enginered. love ur progress keep it up

That's not a bad outcome for mods like yours. Which engineer did you end up using?
Cheers
J

yeh im also keen to know which engineer you used???

screwy

sorry guys ive been advised (id say warned) by moderators not to name the engineer, because of his dubious decision about the lift or i get a free ticket on the bus!
i will say this much though i would never use this bloke again he was damn tuff on absolutely everything!

familybus wrote:sorry guys ive been advised (id say warned) by moderators not to name the engineer, because of his dubious decision about the lift or i get a free ticket on the bus!
i will say this much though i would never use this bloke again he was damn tuff on absolutely everything!

it's his job to be tough! What if he passed a really dodgey car and then the owner drove out and killed someone because the car was unroadworthy and unsafe? I'd say he did a good job being tough and thorough. At least you know your car has passed a thorough inspection and is safe and legal.

I'd put the smaller tyres on, paint the springs a different colour and just drive up with the receipt for 2" lift, sounds like he wouldn't know the difference!

Tojo wrote:

familybus wrote: it's his job to be tough! What if he passed a really dodgey car and then the owner drove out and killed someone because the car was unroadworthy and unsafe?

Engineers are supposed to know the difference between a safe and unsafe car, and becable to class modifications as safe. Sounds like he didn't want to take the risk. Doesn't do much for his name though.

i thught you could engineer up too 150mm lift?

oldmate wrote:

Tojo wrote:

familybus wrote: it's his job to be tough! What if he passed a really dodgey car and then the owner drove out and killed someone because the car was unroadworthy and unsafe?

Engineers are supposed to know the difference between a safe and unsafe car, and becable to class modifications as safe. Sounds like he didn't want to take the risk. Doesn't do much for his name though.

If the engineer was supposed to know about what is safe or not, wouldn't he know the difference between a 3" and 2" lift?
And whats with the 33's being knocked back? Measure up a pizza cutter 7.50 x 16 and its pretty close to a 33. Going to 31's is downsizing and could be unsafe too.....
Engineer....pffft.
Get a refund

no actually 33's are illegal on a GQ in QLD as they are larger than 50mm above standard size (31 compared to 33 inch is 50.8mm difference to be technical). So they will have to be fixed which is nothing to do.

But as for suspension he should have been able to test the 3 inch lift and approve/disapprove accordingly. But i do like an engineer being thorough and scrutinising as i maintains a greater standard on our roads.

You dont really have to fix much at all so its really no worry. Great job on the conversion also, it looks tops.

Warnie wrote:no actually 33's are illegal on a GQ in QLD as they are larger than 50mm above standard size (31 compared to 33 inch is 50.8mm difference to be technical). So they will have to be fixed which is nothing to do.

But as for suspension he should have been able to test the 3 inch lift and approve/disapprove accordingly. But i do like an engineer being thorough and scrutinising as i maintains a greater standard on our roads.

You dont really have to fix much at all so its really no worry. Great job on the conversion also, it looks tops.

Stupid rules again - I always find it amazing that 0.8mm makes the difference between a dangerous outlawed tyre on a 4wd and a legal car grandma can drive. Gee thats one good burnout and they are back to legal size....yeah I know "its what it says on the side of the tyre, not the actual rolling diameter"....another stupid rule. Pffft

Engineering on the other hand, should be proper engineering, with calcs, manufacturer loadings, material compositions, etc that can demonstrate an alteration is acceptable. That is being safe, not some BS rule made up by a failed engineer working for the Govt coz he cant make it in the real world. ( or worse a politician...)

And X2 on the Familybus job. Very noice

Clanky wrote: Engineering on the other hand, should be proper engineering, with calcs, manufacturer loadings, material compositions, etc that can demonstrate an alteration is acceptable. That is being safe, not some BS rule made up by a failed engineer working for the Govt coz he cant make it in the real world. ( or worse a politician...)

And X2 on the Familybus job. Very noice

That's what I thought engineers were for. I don't know the specifics on qld legislation but I would have thought the 50mm rule would only apply to unengineered vehicles.

I have seen many toyota coaster buses with 4wd conversions and plenty more lift than 50mm getting around. What's the deal there QLD government?

This might be useful - its from a Patrol owner manual.



I did some looking into the 7.5R16 tyres a while back, and between the various manufacturers they can be up to 32.25" tall depending on the type of tread you opt for.

oldmate wrote:

Clanky wrote: Engineering on the other hand, should be proper engineering, with calcs, manufacturer loadings, material compositions, etc that can demonstrate an alteration is acceptable. That is being safe, not some BS rule made up by a failed engineer working for the Govt coz he cant make it in the real world. ( or worse a politician...)

And X2 on the Familybus job. Very noice

That's what I thought engineers were for. I don't know the specifics on qld legislation but I would have thought the 50mm rule would only apply to unengineered vehicles.

I have seen many toyota coaster buses with 4wd conversions and plenty more lift than 50mm getting around. What's the deal there QLD government?

Yeah they might be getting around but it doesn't make them legal. They aren't to strict on it, mainly because half the coppers themselves don't know the rule.
I think the deal with the QLD government is that they are a bit lazy, the 50mm rule for lift, tyres and rim size is uniform for all vehicles on qld's roads whether it be a small diahatsu charade or a big 4b.
No more than 50mm greater or below standard manufactures height.

Clanky wrote:
Engineering on the other hand, should be proper engineering, with calcs, manufacturer loadings, material compositions, etc that can demonstrate an alteration is acceptable. That is being safe, not some BS rule made up by a failed engineer working for the Govt coz he cant make it in the real world. ( or worse a politician...)

x 2,
Otherwise what's the point in all that time at Tech, learning and doing exams, might as well be a Woolworths manager.

Warnie wrote:no actually 33's are illegal on a GQ in QLD as they are larger than 50mm above standard size (31 compared to 33 inch is 50.8mm difference to be technical).

requirement is no more than 15mm increase in diameter - not 50mm.

I think all in all,your conversion must have been a good job
Those things that were required for you to do,i mean really ,
would have taken less time to do than come here and type away about it
If it was my job/reputation/licence on the line everytime a conversion was approved, i would go right over it and find every little thing wrong
Thats the difference between some one who THINKS they know whats right and someone who KNOWS whats right
How many so called experts are out there and how many really know what the hell they are talking about
I have had people tell me how easy my profession is , and yet NOONE can actually do it as good/better/quick and WARRANT their work as i can
If your 4by was involved in a crash and the approver was found liable for a dodgy approval, that could cost him everything he owns
So was he picky OR just being thorough

As a ex retailer of tyres; You can read in any manufactures product lists the recommanded tyre to rim size, load rating, speed rating and 'Overall Rolling Diameters. A 7.50 X 16R same as 235/85 R16 = 810 mm OD and fitted to a 6-7 inch rim. A 33/12.5 R15 fitting to a 8 - 10" rim = 830 mm and a 285/75 R16 = 840 mm.

If any of you have completed a road / race CAMS lic you would Know (along with educated engineers) that by increasing wheel trac you will lower centre of gravity.

A Patrol, Landcruiser, Hilux (old mod), Pajero, Land Rover, etc; all come factory fitted 16" X 6" rims 0 offset. Where as a after market 15 x 8 will generally be a -22 mm offset.

A 235/85 R16 will be 0 mm @ centre from hub and + 117.5 mm from hub at out side edge, and a 33 X 12.5 R15 on a 15 X 8 will be + 22 mm @ centre from hub + 178 mm from hub at out side edge.

So by using 33's you will increase OD by 20 mm ( 2.5% and you will increase wheel trac by 44 mm ( 1.8% on a GQ or 80's ). A increase of 121 mm outside wall to out side wall of tyres,the result being a lower Centre off Gravity by about -5%.

Q ? Is it safer to use factory fitted wheels (235/85 R16) or after market (33 / 12.5 R15) ?

And I'm not a motor engineer but into Agricutlural science.

hey mat howd u go is it engineered yet. did u sort out those lilttle things?