Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Guys, i know this has been covered previous, but i am seeing alot more cheap intercooler kits for 80 series.
Both top mount and front mount.
Has anyone tried any of these kits? What was your experience?

Sarafi intercooler kit is upward of $2k i believe.
MTQ is like $2800.
ASE turbo are $1100 on ebay... they look very similar to safari but are mounted abit lower?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TOTOTA-LANDCRUIS ... 27b2c00d1b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

has anyone had good or bad experiences?
The cheaper kit i could afford but i wouldnt pay near 3k for a kit im not that much in love with my 80 series?

Cheers

Twon

You could do a front mount similar to mine. Get the cooler off ebay, do your calculations and decide how you want to run the hosing, then buy your hosing and stainless bends from Just Jap <$600.

That isnt too bad emsy.

i saw bends for sale on fleabay for $130 or something for 6 bends at whatever angle you like. And the actual intercooler isnt too pricey either.
I would just hate to pay $600 and end up with a dud if for a little extra i get a kit.(the ASE one)
shows how much markup there is when other places are charging $2800 or so.

Fitting a small cooler might not help you if it doesnt flow well enough. The big diesel engines with even the ordinary turbos move a lot of air.


Something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/INTERCOOLER-TURB ... 19b92d4008" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Or this

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FORD-FALCON-BA-X ... 439fea8a99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Should do the job no problemo and wont be too difficult to fit in the front of the car behind your front bullbar.


I would suggest making piping out of stainless and getting it welded up and using the rubber just to join it to the engine and the cooler at either end. ( like you do with a custom snorkel for example) because of all the bumps and rough roads take their toll on the rubber bends all over the place. Its important to mountthe piping securely ie dont leave it hanging off its joins and mount or two will make all the difference to its service life.

Intercooling is pretty simple so dont be scared to make your own kit. A bit of time and mucking about will make an excellent power gain and leave the door open to run a bit more boost. Plus if you use a cheap easily replacable core ( like the ebay one or the xr6 turbo one ) no matter what happens to it you can get another one cheap.

Mines 500 x 300mm. Plenty of cool air going in. If I redo mine I will be doing as Mr sparkle said and having the hosing primarily from stainless. It's a PITA when a clamp keeps letting go of a silicone hose in a tricky spot under boost. But as I already said it is alot cheaper, just take the time to figure out where you want to run it all, and don't rush it, we did, it works great but it could be better placed.

kit looks okay but the way its mounted with a bullbar even without a winch it looks like it wont get any air at all........

Yes i admit i was concerned about the air flow issue.
i have a winchbar and no winch, so there would be some flow through the front where the rollerfairlead etc would go but not heaps.

but safari kits are so fk off expensive its very uncool.

Cheers

Twon


anyone else tried one??

I am new to Outers, so not sure if you have a petrol of diesel 80, but I just fitted one of these water/air units to my 100 series 1HZ and have been extremely impressed. Had to make a few mods to fit the 100, but they bolt on to the 80 diesel OOTB. Cost was under a $1000, so no GST was applciable.
http://www.4wdbits.co.nz/ProductsList.a ... lection=21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers
Cameron

4.2 turbo diesel 1HD-FT.

hmm i was trying not to hack up the bonnet though. so front mount is my only real option air to air.

I have a 600 x300 front mount on my 1HDT. I mocked it up with steel pipe and rubber bends first. Once I was happy with the pipe route I welded steel bends in.

Cost sweet FA and makes a hell of a difference.

Core cost a hundred bucks of ebay.

It's been in for over 12 months, 20,000Km and many bush trips so far and I havent damaged it yet, engine temp and aircon are not affected



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try and get a look at the core inside, or ask for photos. I looked at Just Jap coolers off Ebay (they are just up the road from me) the cheap ones where pretty poor quality, lots of partly blocked tubes in the core.
I would look at sourcing all the tube and bends off ebay, and get a quality core from someone like PWR or ARE. you will still do it a lot cheaper than a safari kit. Some of the cheap kits I have seen leave a lot to be desired IMO.

you pay for what you get mate, when all said and done if you want the performance youll have to spend the money.

Or build you own for a fraction of the price

Ever thought of a water to air barrel intercooler kit ? all stays under bonnets with no holes for scoops etc ..

just a thought .

I will investigate the barrel ones..


yeah i do realise you pay for what you get often.
but when one is $950 the other is $2500 or $2800 for MTQ you start to question the value?

i dont want to end up someone who spends $10k on mods to my 80 series. then sells it in a couple of years for 10k.

but cheers


Twon

I had a mate that fitted one of these http://www.dencodiesel.com/pdf/Fitting/ ... %20KIT.pdf and he loved it, made a huge difference on the open road. The air to air look like they have about 2 metres of pipe work, I tend to think this would have to create massive turbo lag and I don’t know if this would be an issue or not.

I have thought about adding one to my 80 but just can’t justify the cost for the return.

http://www.dencodiesel.com/store/comers ... ategory=63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those denco kits look nice but their expensive .
I'm pretty sure pwr do universal barrel kits in a few sizes for about 900 - 1200 for the kit ( when i called around ) , just need to fab up ends to suit the turbo and inlet manifold .
i think their is also a cheaper kit around called plazmaman intercoolers?
this is what i'll be doing on my 80 when the time comes .

just another option for those wanting to intercool .

clever80 wrote:I had a mate that fitted one of these http://www.dencodiesel.com/pdf/Fitting/ ... %20KIT.pdf and he loved it, made a huge difference on the open road. The air to air look like they have about 2 metres of pipe work, I tend to think this would have to create massive turbo lag and I don’t know if this would be an issue or not.

I have thought about adding one to my 80 but just can’t justify the cost for the return.

http://www.dencodiesel.com/store/comers ... ategory=63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a significant return for (very) modest outlay.

YKIMS

hey all how much of a difference does it make having a intercooler?
cheers mick

Minimal difference just by bolting it on. A little extra torque down low. Add the extra fuel to make the ratio's correct and youll see a gain. But by reducing the engine temp it allows you to run more boost and keep the same as before exhaust temps = More power

TheBigBoy wrote:Minimal difference just by bolting it on. A little extra torque down low. Add the extra fuel to make the ratio's correct and youll see a gain. But by reducing the engine temp it allows you to run more boost and keep the same as before exhaust temps = More power

ok i get it but the power gain is it bad 4 your motor the more psi u run?
or as long as ur engine temp is sweet is it ok.
cheers mick

Depends on the engine. If you dont go too silly with boost then yeah its fine. But if you want to run high boost pressure then with your 80 its advised to tuff'n up the bottom end, crank etc... Without tuff'ning it up the most you can run is about 14psi

But with that out of the way its heat that kills and fatigues the engine mostly. So lower egt's means longer life. Intercooling and uping the boost while keeping the egt's at a safe level wont shorten the life of your engine.

So basically if you want more safe power. You cant do 1 without the other, intercool and up the boost. The only problem that im finding is my factory turbo cant handle the boost I want = New turbo. Also = stronger bottom end. So I might aswell rebuild the engine from scratch and set everything up the way I want it. ANother problem is Im hoping my pump can handle it being 150 000k's old. If not then another grand for a pump rebuild. Get expensive fast.

And air to air vs liquid to air all comes down to personal prefference. If you want more power for highway (towing etc) then air to air will suite you. If you want to keep egt's at a safe level while hard but slow 4x4ing in the bush the liquid to air.

Each to their own...

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote:4.2 turbo diesel 1HD-FT.

hmm i was trying not to hack up the bonnet though. so front mount is my only real option air to air.

You struck me as the diy type, so why not pick up a new or second hand intercooler of something else that is roughtly the size you need.

I would also go the effort of top mout too, the less crap you have blocking your main radiator the better

those kits are simply capitilising on their bolt on value, and the ignorance of some people.

Well air to air front mount will work very well at speed and towing etc. which is when im most worried.
Im not too concerned about slow work etc in my 80 series.
more so for towing my comp rig.

I can get a safari intercooler for less then double the cheap ase one.
but then i ask myself is it worth the extra $$$.....

Ive known a few guys who bought the safari kit. And what is says on their website is what they got. So they are right with their figures.
28% more power
25% more torque
50% air temp reduction

But for me I would definately go a liquid to air.
"WHY HASNT ANYONE INVENTED A HYBRID INTERCOOLER. liquid to air at low speed works and then air to air takes over at speed. 2 coolers on the 1 intake. I was thinkin a barrel liquid intercooler welded to a crosscountry top mount. ????

TheBigBoy wrote:Ive known a few guys who bought the safari kit. And what is says on their website is what they got. So they are right with their figures.
28% more power
25% more torque
50% air temp reduction

But for me I would definately go a liquid to air.
"WHY HASNT ANYONE INVENTED A HYBRID INTERCOOLER. liquid to air at low speed works and then air to air takes over at speed. 2 coolers on the 1 intake. I was thinkin a barrel liquid intercooler welded to a crosscountry top mount. ????

Is that a 50% drop in EGT? or inlet air temp?
im wondering what drop in EGT to expect?

cheers

Twon

That drop will be quoted as air inlet temp (or outlet of turbo). I think the EGT drops a few guys around the traps have been mentioning is under 100 degrees, not huge but still beneficial but you would need to search a few of their posts on the various forums to confirm.

As far as cooling turbo diesels are concerned it is not necessarily as simple as you my first think when compared to petrols. Basically the cooler and/or it's efficiency has to be a good bit bigger/better than a petrol vehicle. The petrols might rev higher and produce more power but they do so for only a very small percentage of the time. Think about in normal driving how long in time a turbo petrol is on full throttle full boost, not much even with a few traffic light gran prix and even on a long highway run. Compare that to a diesel that is flowing large volumes of air all the time and that on say a highway run even cruising at the speed limit are running a fair proportion of their boost for virtually the entire time.

This means there is no rest time for a diesel intercooler to shed some of it's heat before the next incoming charge of hot air to cool. So the design whilst being simple needs to try and accomodate the biggest or most efficinet intercooler that you can effectively package into your engine bay.

Yeah its inlet air temp. Temp is also about flow like fester said. And think of any obstructions you might have. Precomp chamber - exhaust ports - Turbo itself and exhaust. If the hot air can escape quicker then it wont retain heat and run cooler. "Im no expert on turbo's its just general knowledge"

The other question I have though, is how does the turbo react to the cooler intake air? The turbo spools for burn/spent HOT gas's from the engine. So if you intercooled an engine and wound up the fuel to match and it was running cooler egts then you would have more lag???

So you would want to wind up the boost and fuel to get the same as before temps to keep the lag the same? Am I correct?? anyone shed some light?

I found a decrease of about 250 degrees (egt) when i fitted my intercooler, but i think alot of this comes from the free flowing intake.

Anything you can do to increase the efficiency of the intake/exhaust stroke will create a better burn.

hmm very good.
Zoltan what intercooler have you got??

im hoping that putting a snorkel on at the same time as intercooler might help my cause.

I built my own water to air cooler with 2 cores and 2 seperate coolant systems coming back to a large radiator on the back behind the cab. The cores are the length of the intake manifold, the width of the head and about 100mm thick.

Its a very invasive setup with 1/2 of the cooler sticking out of the bonnet but damn it works well.

Cost me less than $1000 to build, install and plumb up.

It does help when you have access to alot of materials from work though.. But really anyone could do it.