Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Gday guys ive been lurking with the occasional post here for ages, i'm in the proccess of getting my first fourby, hoping to get one around the end of the year, but have been keeping an eye out for a nice one.

I keep coming accross cruisers and patrols with 350 chevs - it's dissapointing being on p plates because it just means i cant drive it (far to quick for us young people)

It's got me thinking though why is it such a common swap in the fourby scene?
My previous car was a commodore and the common swap in that scene was to drop an LS1 in; wouldn't it be a more logical swap for a 4wd as well? Surely they are much more locally available? Where do you even source a 350 chev from these days?

cheers, oscar

You'll probably find that these were done a while ago as the chev was a popular choice before the LS1 etc became popular. So there were a number of kits readily availble which made it an easy choice. Didn't need to be injected either so options were much better for engine configuration as well.

also gotta remember that the LS1 is also called a 350 chev as well becuase its a 346cui and it is a auctually a chev motor.

Simple and cheapish for hourspower

The age thing sort of explains it but one that comes to mind is a GU a saw on carsales, surely that doesnt count as old.

I'm not really going anywhere with this, just i hadnt heard of many cars having 350 chevs since kingswoods. Wouldn't they struggle to pass emmisions and all the rest, arent they carby fed?

The ls1 is only a 346 like you said, but it's a GM engine not chevy. I dont know, maybe its the same people who put chev badges on holdens

it probably would have been dedicated gas to pass emissions. Your GM ls1 is a chev motor they have just dropped the C as in general motors cheverolet and also general motors holden for gmh

They are a good motor and cheap to modify to extract good Hp.

Also small for their cubic capacity and as stated plenty of conversion gear out there for them and plenty of 350s out there too.

Cheers

As said a 350 chev is just a carbie ls1 there same just one injected one not the reason why they get put in is cause easy conversion no electrics to get wet while 4wding and there's still a huge range of parts available more than a ls1 most likely and all ya need to pass emissions is if it's older than the car have it on straight gas which most 4wders will like
we put a 350 in my old mans cruiser and we were gonna Go a Holden donk but got told from a few people that if ya need parts and ya stranded in middle of no where more chances of getting chev parts than anything

Chev 350 conversions are as old as mosses
Good cheap reliable horsepower
Can get 1 HP per CuIn very easy and not a pig to drive
LS1s are the current fad,with emmision regs ect,but unless your a rocket scientist the ol 350 chevs are great and easy to work on
I wonder really $ for $ , bang for bang what would be the better
The small block chev is the most mass producted motor in the world
Parts are everywhere,and not dear at all

nerida67 wrote: The small block chev is the most mass producted motor in the world

really? i think the 4A-XXX motors from the corolla would probably rival that...

bad_religion_au wrote:

nerida67 wrote: The small block chev is the most mass producted motor in the world

really? i think the 4A-XXX motors from the corolla would probably rival that...

I dont know for sure, but there are so many old american cars and trucks made with a 350. Even the f-truck is one of the most sold vehicles in the world, even though it's mostly americans that buy them (well i suppose there is almost 400 million americans)

I think the 350 would trump any jap car.

oldmate wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:

nerida67 wrote: The small block chev is the most mass producted motor in the world

really? i think the 4A-XXX motors from the corolla would probably rival that...

I dont know for sure, but there are so many old american cars and trucks made with a 350. Even the f-truck is one of the most sold vehicles in the world, even though it's mostly americans that buy them (well i suppose there is almost 400 million americans)

I think the 350 would trump any jap car.

Some F Trucks have Ford 351 Cu i engines, not Chev 350 Cu i.

I agree though that the 350 Chev is probably one of the most prolific engines ever built.

Edit, from Wiki,


Finally superseded by GM's Generation II LT and Generation III LS V8s in the early 2000s and discontinued in 2004, the engine is still made by a GM subsidiary in Mexico as an aftermarket replacement. In all, over 90,000,000 small-blocks have been built in carbureted and fuel injected forms since 1955.

Thats 90 million

Cheers

Well it looks like the small chev is the winner
Dont forget the small block chevs came in many different sizes
265 ,late 50s era
283
302(Yes they made them,not popular,mainly for nascar racing
Classed as a square motor,stroke and bore same size,very rare)
DO your search before telling me they didnt make em
305
307
327
350
396 (both small and big block size)
Where in more model GM than u could poke a stick at
Toyota making a motor as mass produced ????
Highly unlikely

nerida67 wrote: Toyota making a motor as mass produced ????

I do wonder how many 1hz's were made.

Zeyphly wrote:it probably would have been dedicated gas to pass emissions. Your GM ls1 is a chev motor they have just dropped the C as in general motors cheverolet and also general motors holden for gmh

if talking about GMC here, its actually general motors Canada, but yes its all gm

ozz wrote: maybe its the same people who put chev badges on holdens

man that shits me

brentz wrote:As said a 350 chev is just a carbie ls1 there same just one injected one not the reason why they get put in is cause easy conversion no electrics to get wet while 4wding and there's still a huge range of parts available more than a ls1 most likely and all ya need to pass emissions is if it's older than the car have it on straight gas which most 4wders will like
we put a 350 in my old mans cruiser and we were gonna Go a Holden donk but got told from a few people that if ya need parts and ya stranded in middle of no where more chances of getting chev parts than anything

A 350 chev is nothing like the LS series of motors. The LS has a shite load of engineering behind them to make them very strong, efficient and be capable of huge power in fairly stock form. Not that the 350 is a bad motor they have just been superseded by a newer better model.

It's got me thinking though why is it such a common swap in the fourby scene?
My previous car was a commodore and the common swap in that scene was to drop an LS1 in; wouldn't it be a more logical swap for a 4wd as well? Surely they are much more locally available? Where do you even source a 350 chev from these days?

Everyone is putting yank V8's in there cruisers and patrols because nissan/toyota don't give us any horsepower and there parts are worth the weight in gold compared to anything mass produced for the american motors.

pozman wrote:

Zeyphly wrote:it probably would have been dedicated gas to pass emissions. Your GM ls1 is a chev motor they have just dropped the C as in general motors cheverolet and also general motors holden for gmh

if talking about GMC here, its actually general motors Canada, but yes its all gm

ozz wrote: maybe its the same people who put chev badges on holdens

man that shits me

GMC is not GM Canada, its general motors coach/truck division shortened to GMC.

Loanrangie wrote:

pozman wrote:

Zeyphly wrote:it probably would have been dedicated gas to pass emissions. Your GM ls1 is a chev motor they have just dropped the C as in general motors cheverolet and also general motors holden for gmh

if talking about GMC here, its actually general motors Canada, but yes its all gm

ozz wrote: maybe its the same people who put chev badges on holdens

man that shits me

GMC is not GM Canada, its general motors coach/truck division shortened to GMC.

sorry, i have been proven wrong

Anyone with an LS motor in a Patrol or cruiser would make very sure nobody confused it with a 350, which is why they will be referred to as LS-1, LS, or Gen III conversions, but never as a 350 chev.

Yes, 350's are hard to get emissions legal on petrol. It has been done with TPI motors (The injected corvette/camaro motor) but these days it wold be cheaper and easier to go with an LS engine.

Steve

nerida67 wrote:Well it looks like the small chev is the winner
Dont forget the small block chevs came in many different sizes
265 ,late 50s era
283
302(Yes they made them,not popular,mainly for nascar racing
Classed as a square motor,stroke and bore same size,very rare)
DO your search before telling me they didnt make em
305
307
327
350
396 (both small and big block size)
Where in more model GM than u could poke a stick at
Toyota making a motor as mass produced ????
Highly unlikely

302... yes they were made..... stroke and bore the same size I don't think so.... 302s were 4" bore and 3" stroke... thats why they used to rev fairly easily...if the bore and stroke were the same what dimensions were they... enlighten me..........

There were also 400cu in small blocks but while the external dimensions were the same there were some noticable changes internally to get those cubes..

Red 60,
Yep your right ,my bad

A quick google search finds the answer
Oh the advantage of the web

nerida67 wrote:Red 60,
Yep your right ,my bad

A quick google search finds the answer
Oh the advantage of the web

No web from my end... I used to own one.. a 302 chev that is... but that's another story...

brentz wrote:As said a 350 chev is just a carbie ls1 there same just one injected one not the reason why they get put in is cause easy conversion no electrics to get wet while 4wding and there's still a huge range of parts available more than a ls1 most likely and all ya need to pass emissions is if it's older than the car have it on straight gas which most 4wders will like
we put a 350 in my old mans cruiser and we were gonna Go a Holden donk but got told from a few people that if ya need parts and ya stranded in middle of no where more chances of getting chev parts than anything

LOL at that comment!

LS is just like a 350? only in size mate. even an iron block LS isnt like a 350

What I don't get is the patrols with detroit diesels... I understand that it would be a much simpler and easier engine to work on.

But my quick google reasearch shows:

By numbers.

6.5L V8 Turbo (Detroit Diesel)

160 kW @ 3,200 rpm / 597 N·m @ 1,800 rpm

3.0L V6 Twin Turbo (Ford/Land Rover)

180 kW @ 4,000 rpm / 600 N·m @ 2,000 rpm

Factor in the detroit is a cast iron block and head, compared to compacted graphite iron block and alloy head. Not sure on actual weight...

I understand the detroit is probably a lot easier and simpler to work on and do a swap with, but you see enough ricers with all sorts of swaps so it would be possible, to me on paper it is a much better engine.

The problem is "dont "compare to ricers

Cruisers and patrols wieght upwards of 2.5 tonne +++
Depending on gear
Some ricers wouldnt wieght half that wet
Alot of conversions are done for the low down power
Talk to a few turbo RB30 patrol guys and most would go turbo Td/Tb42 anyday
No point revving your motor to over 6K just to get to power band
Absolutely hopeless for rock crawling ect

nerida67 wrote:Well it looks like the small chev is the winner
Dont forget the small block chevs came in many different sizes
265 ,late 50s era
283
302(Yes they made them,not popular,mainly for nascar racing
Classed as a square motor,stroke and bore same size,very rare)
DO your search before telling me they didnt make em
305
307
327
350
396 (both small and big block size)
Where in more model GM than u could poke a stick at
Toyota making a motor as mass produced ????
Highly unlikely

Some of those smaller older V8's, there's not a lot of power output compared to modern engines. The 302, 305 & 307 V8's all put out less power & torque than my AMC 242 straight six. And now 20 years on the 242 is piddly compared to modern 4 cylinders

Kitika wrote: Everyone is putting yank V8's in there cruisers and patrols because nissan/toyota don't give us any horsepower and there parts are worth the weight in gold compared to anything mass produced for the american motors.

I remember back in the mid 90's when the XJ was introduced to australia and then the wrangler in 96/97 and everyone was raving about how much power those jeep engines put out, and that was because they were all used to toyota & nissan's engine power


cheers

Jeeps wrote:

Kitika wrote: Everyone is putting yank V8's in there cruisers and patrols because nissan/toyota don't give us any horsepower and there parts are worth the weight in gold compared to anything mass produced for the american motors.

I remember back in the mid 90's when the XJ was introduced to australia and then the wrangler in 96/97 and everyone was raving about how much power those jeep engines put out, and that was because they were all used to toyota & nissan's engine power


cheers

Yeh, those Jeep engines were real firestarters oops that should read firebreathers

The problem with the high tech or late model motors,
Sure they put out fair power (not torque) as compared to their replacements
But go stick a 100 KW odd four banger in a 3 tonne 4x4 as see how they go

Its not just the KW or HP figure you have to look at

Alot of new cars have 5-6 speeds to suit the power/torque curve of the motors
Cars of years ago had 2 speed autos and 3 speed manuals
Like comparing apples to oranges

nerida67 wrote:The problem is "dont "compare to ricers

Cruisers and patrols wieght upwards of 2.5 tonne +++
Depending on gear
Some ricers wouldnt wieght half that wet
Alot of conversions are done for the low down power
Talk to a few turbo RB30 patrol guys and most would go turbo Td/Tb42 anyday
No point revving your motor to over 6K just to get to power band
Absolutely hopeless for rock crawling ect

If you look at the motors both are diesels and both have nearly identical power and torque figures, the V6 is slightly higher rpm for the power but it has more of it and the weight would mean a better power to weight ratio, the torque is virtually identical...

My point was that ricers and even classic cars often put in newer or more complex engines. An RB20DET swap into a 240/260Z is pretty popular just as an example and that's going from a simple engine to a much more complex one. Just pointing out that it can be done so why isn't it ?

The problem is with newer engines ,its not just the HP or torque u have to look at

An RB20 say in a "z" car would be great
But what mods are required , what gearbox,ecu,fuel pumps, pollution gear ect ect
You have to look at the total costs
The emmision requirements for the motor in that car would have to pass emmision requirements for the year the motor was made
If the motor needed cats or came with cats standard, it would have to be fitted to the "z" car

So its never just drop in and your away

And seriously how would the RB20 go against a "Z" motor running triple webers ???

I see where your coming from,and understand what your saying
But alot of these high tech motors are bloody expensive on parts as well
Twin cam head gasket for a ford telstar is like $150 bucks
Id rather a big motor making say a lazy 300 HP, than a high tech motor that needs its rings revved out to develop the same power
And needs rebuilding every so often