Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys,

i have a friend, who is a diesel mech, and has done around 80% of the job( has the motor in and fitted) was given the ok buy the engineer before he started, and has now been told buy multiple engineers, that the motor cannot be legally put into the car.

can any one help shed some light onto this for me? location is vic, i dont know the engineers he has talked to.

if any one can help i would appreciate it heaps

Alistair

has the engineer that he spoke to originally changed his mind?
If not, why not keep using him?
i beleive they can still be done in the GUs.

Brunswick diesel do this conversion all the time

A person to talk to who might be able to help out with some info is Walyy Dewar at Dewars performance engines in Tamgambalanga, He should know what the go is with them if not he will know who to speak too.

yes i was told that the original engineer changed his mind, and every other one he contacted didnt want a thing to do with it.

i know brunswick diesel does it and i have contacted them too,

thanks for the hints, they will come in handy

There are heaps of GU's going around with this conversion.

I'm currrently looking for either a GU or 100 series with stuffed running gear to swap out the 6.5 in my 60 into.
No rush, but when the right one comes along I'll get it.
But getting engineers approval was never something I thought about as I know this is a popular mod and gets done all the time and I know (Well, thought I did) that I could easily get approval for doing this.

on the vicroads website look up VASS, this is the list of engineer's available for use. Call Through the list until you find one that bites.

Just out of curiosity, have you asked the engineer what his reason's for no longer wanting to sign of on this conversion were? Might give you some thing's to think about or have answers ready for his questions when you approach the next engineer.

What year is the GU?

The 6.5ltr was built for many years, originally non-turbo, then mechanically injected turbo and in 94 as a electronically injected turbo motor. If the GU is a late model you'll more than likely have troubles with emissions.

shakes wrote:on the vicroads website look up VASS, this is the list of engineer's available for use. Call Through the list until you find one that bites.

Just out of curiosity, have you asked the engineer what his reason's for no longer wanting to sign of on this conversion were? Might give you some thing's to think about or have answers ready for his questions when you approach the next engineer.

i dont know what the original engineers problem was, i didnt talk to my mate i spoke to his missues. i wil speak to him soon though

also as his missues didnt really know the full story she may have got her wires crossed when she told me, but she said it was something about the engineer said it was illigal to put that motor in that car and that if he certified it and my mate hit some one they would both be up for murder or somethiing... like i said i will talk to him and find out the facts. but i will sugggest to him about the vic roads web site

cheers

Alistair

Well the gerneral guidline for an engine swap is the engine has to be of the same year or later than the vehicle, That would make a 6.5 too old from that point.
Most GU's, even the 4.2 had some sort of emiision control, EGR systems or similar. If the 6.5 does not have this then therotically it will not pass. I imagine the only way around this would be to have it emission tested and see if it meets the regulations as of the year of the car. That would be the only reason an engineer will not pass it, capacity, etc is not a problem.

Steve

killalux wrote:Well the gerneral guidline for an engine swap is the engine has to be of the same year or later than the vehicle, That would make a 6.5 too old from that point.
Most GU's, even the 4.2 had some sort of emiision control, EGR systems or similar. If the 6.5 does not have this then therotically it will not pass. I imagine the only way around this would be to have it emission tested and see if it meets the regulations as of the year of the car. That would be the only reason an engineer will not pass it, capacity, etc is not a problem.

Steve

For some reason I though these regulations were different for diesels?

As far as I am aware they still neet to meet emissions standards for that year, no matter if its diesel or petrol.

I guess most people just assume that all diesels will pass emissions.

Steve

dogbreath_48 wrote:

killalux wrote:Well the gerneral guidline for an engine swap is the engine has to be of the same year or later than the vehicle, That would make a 6.5 too old from that point.
Most GU's, even the 4.2 had some sort of emiision control, EGR systems or similar. If the 6.5 does not have this then therotically it will not pass. I imagine the only way around this would be to have it emission tested and see if it meets the regulations as of the year of the car. That would be the only reason an engineer will not pass it, capacity, etc is not a problem.

Steve

For some reason I though these regulations were different for diesels?

Rules are different for commercials to passenger vehicles. So if it is a DX Patrol it would be under the commercial code.

Also only the TD42Ti has pollution gear on them. The early Gu's with the TD42T had no pollution gear at all.

But ring around the registered engineers, the one in Gillford and ACT are good. Some I have spoken to over the last couple of weeks have been total tools, and not on this planet. But there are some sensible ones out there if you ring around.

- David.

A bit off the topic....

but can anyone tell me is the Chev 6.5ltr Diesel a Turbo bolt pattern like petrol chev motors????????

yes, it bolts up to turbo 400 & 350.

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks...

i asked my mate what te reasons were, he said that the engineer said it had to do with the motor being to wide, and taking up room in the crumple zones and there fore not allowing the vehicle to crumple as it should in a accident.

lesley from brunswick diesel got back to me, telling me that it is legal but you have to jum through a few hoops, specially if your doing it your self. but as they are in perth he gave me the avenues on how to do it over there and not here in melb. you would assume they are similar, but we all know some states have it easier/harder than others.

but on a lighter note, its legal to do in my 89 75 series lol......

Al

How far back are crumple zone's on a full chassis vehicle? Surely there all at the front after the chassis ends. There not going to crumple up to the firewall as per most 5 star car's are designed. Does this engineer know what a GU is?

why does every one want to put a 6.5 litre in there patrol.. ?? there SHIT!!

THE-Burger-Ring wrote:why does every one want to put a 6.5 litre in there patrol.. ?? there SHIT!!

the patrol or the chev? Been there done that with that motor, biggest piece of shit and waste of time and money ever, very dissapoitning for the end result. Better off boosting the hell out of a 4.2, it'll leave the chev for dead

The chev motors are shit. i have 4.2 diesel doing 760nm and 190rwkw with 35's on.. thats adjusted very tamely too.. as if thats not enough power.. why spend 20k on a motor swap so wont perform better anyway

what about the 6.5 ltr Turbo Diesel ???

i havent seen either the straight diesel or the trubo diesel perform... but i find it hard to believe that it wont pack a punch???

not to mention its mechanically injected making it practically wireless and computer free, its basically water proof...

cos there old shit technology,, at traffic lights over the years i have never ever been beaten by and common rail diesel, or any 200series cruisers, or any F250 and two blokes i used to work had 6.5 litres in a gq patrol and a gu patrol both turbod and either of them couldnt come anywhere near close to keeping up. and i am running 4.2 turbo diesel.. yes i have done a fair bit of work to it but i have no where near spent the same as what it would cost to do a motor swap.. which is my point, and which is why i dont like those 6.5 litres.. heavy clunker pieces of shit.. so many people say they pull like a train... i think those people grew up around ford festivas or something.

KERMIE_308 wrote:what about the 6.5 ltr Turbo Diesel ???

i havent seen either the straight diesel or the trubo diesel perform... but i find it hard to believe that it wont pack a punch???

not to mention its mechanically injected making it practically wireless and computer free, its basically water proof...

Turbo is useless on them because the comp ratio is nearly 22:1, and the heads are weak and crack, and they are hard to keep cool. Off idle torque is great, but after that its very dissapointing. I think the factory turbo ran about 6lb boost, if they could handle 20lb then they would be very impessive, but they can't

i dont know the ins and outs but i am glad you agree.. its about time someone agrees.

look i dont need those negative responses, i have heard those arguments before, and some people dont want to be able to beat anything on the road, i myself dont care that much about on road performance, i want down low tourque that can turn larger rubber on steep hills.

also you are right about the 4.2, but when your replacing the 3 litre, and it is costing you nothing cause of the amount for which you buy the chev, it would be nearly the same to drop the 4.2 into the same car....

AND there is this thing call personal preference, EACH to their own, i hate ricers vehicles, but i dont tell them not to do what they are doing, its thier choice, and leaves more 4wd parts for me.

I never said don't do it, and buy all means i hope you are happy with the end result. I was just pointing out some facts on these motors, they're high comp (22:1)(not great for high boost), have heating issues even with the later high flow serpintine belt pump and duel themostats, heads are prone to cracking, early ones have been known to break cranks. Plus side of them is the off idle torque, roller cam, and awsome sound, thats about it.
From memory the pump can be turned up so you get a wopping 195hp , you'd expect more, but thats it.
If you can get the turbo and manifold then i'd try it, even at 8lb, it'll give it the kick in the pants it needs.
Expect minimum of 16l/100k to, it doesn't change much, but thats about minimum you'l get, all day every day.
Good luck

thanks,

its not for myself any way, its a friend that is doing it. i did want to do it, but i would prefer to get a 12ht instead...

just read your 1st post properly, he's a diesel mechanic, you'd think he'd know better

I found some test results for the 6.5 which shows it's BSFC of 337g/kwh at rated power.
This compares to an Isuzu 4BD1T at 229 g/kwh at rated power and a VW 1.9 TDI at 235 g/kwh.

What does this mean? The 6.5 will drink at least 50% more fuel than a good diesel engine. Some petrol engines are more efficient.
This is also why they have problems keeping cool. Honestly if these engines were free there's still no reason to use them.