Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Was reading through regulation's and this confused me.

4.4.17 WINCHES
All vehicles must be fitted with one (and only one) operational Warn 8274 winch when competing
in an event where winching is required.
Winches may have some additional bracing, improved bearings, improved lubrication, upgraded
brake shaft & upgraded controls, but must remain in its original configuration with standard gear
ratios. Upgraded wiring is permitted.
Motor must be a standard Warn motor (maximum 6hp)
1 winch motor only
Winch must retain standard drum in length & diameter, however you may upgrade the flange
thickness
Winch must be fitted with 12volt motor.
Winch can run on 12-volt only, no 24-volt systems
No free spools
Winch must be front mounted
Synthetic type winch rope must be used.
Winch hooks must be rated & have a self-retaining safety catch

You seriously have to run this specific winch in production class when in any toher class it is un specified?

It might sound strict but it iliminates having to provide parity between low and high mount winches but still limits the modifications to allow people to compete on a smaller budget. Like 5k instead of 15-20k for a winch. You don't have to have those mods but they are a maximum you can do to the winch. You would have to heavily modify a low mount to compete with that.

They are the maxium specs for Production class, recently with some mates they ran a pretty much standard high mount with 2.5hp motor

Ok that makes sense, but put's me further from racing i guess. The old tigerz11 won't cut the mustard!

It puts all production cars at the same level in terms of how good their winch is so it comes down to technique and driving experience.

why highmounts only though ?

what if someone wants to try there hand at racing but has a lowmount then they have to drop 3k on a new highmount .

flexytj wrote:why highmounts only though ?

what if someone wants to try there hand at racing but has a lowmount then they have to drop 3k on a new highmount .

Thats what i thought, im happy to use my shitbox winch

HUSSLN wrote:

flexytj wrote:why highmounts only though ?

what if someone wants to try there hand at racing but has a lowmount then they have to drop 3k on a new highmount .

Thats what i thought, im happy to use my shitbox winch

Why don't contact the rule makers and ask them for an exact answer.....

Or even better go to a meeting and ask the question...they are not far from where you live.

General Meetings are held on the 4th Wednesday each month (excluding December) at the HV Jones Pavillion, Kingston Road, Ferntree Gully, VIC, 3156. Meetings start at 8.00pm

i have seen low mounts used in the past at vicwinch(09 i think) so i would say you can use them it's just at your own dissadvantage , but maybe thay changed it cause they are too slow

It's a highmount (M8274 only) or nothing guys. I recently went through the same thought process and hit up the ccda about the rules.

It's frustrating, because now I have to find a highmount to compete...OR...use my lowmount and get bunched into Challenge Class....where's the logic in that!?

It all makes sense but I still can't see if you only had a lowmount, you are going to be slower anyway...competing with a low mount is better than not competing at all!

discussion here:
http://forum.mudrhino.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=10051" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so someone competing in a fj40 using a factory toyota pto winch isnt classed as production ??

pcman wrote:so someone competing in a fj40 using a factory toyota pto winch isnt classed as production ??

apparently not. You MUST use the winch they specify. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, that is the rule.

cruzinnboozn wrote:

HUSSLN wrote:

flexytj wrote:why highmounts only though ?

what if someone wants to try there hand at racing but has a lowmount then they have to drop 3k on a new highmount .

Thats what i thought, im happy to use my shitbox winch

Why don't contact the rule makers and ask them for an exact answer.....

Or even better go to a meeting and ask the question...they are not far from where you live.

General Meetings are held on the 4th Wednesday each month (excluding December) at the HV Jones Pavillion, Kingston Road, Ferntree Gully, VIC, 3156. Meetings start at 8.00pm

Indeed i can, but i was chasing a quick answer before i wasted money on a winch.

I thought the same when I had a low mount, sold it, bought a high mount for $700 put a seal and break kit in it and I was away. A few mods to the bar was needed but the performance and the serviceability makes it worth it.
You will spend so much money once you start competing that $700- $1200 for a second hand high mount is money well spent.

Thats true swamp ive been on the lookout for a s/h high mount since i first read the rule's no use trying to fight it eventually your gonna want a high mount anyway.

that is only in production class though yeah?? in every other class you can run what you want yes??? at what point do you move from production class to others ? what specifies production class( i would read that as stock car class)

It is a shame about the HIGH MNT ONLY RULE.
It would be good to see this sport opened up to to alot more people who only have a low $$$ budget. I have a high mount & use it , but its $$$ to set up # 2nd hand winch $900 to $1200
# bracing ,breaks, bla bla bla $250 to $500
# 6 hp motor $400 to $500
# synthetic rope $300 to $500
# bull bar to put it in $500 to $1800
all of that can add up to an amt that may stop a lot of new people starting that would grow the sport
when you look at these tiger 11 winches they come out with synthetic rope for around $850, they would not be as quick or as strong as a highmount, but they might get some more people competing until they can afford a highmount.
Maybe its somthing you VIC's shoud bring up at your next meeting, If its a low mount off the shelf (not modified) with synthetic perhaps they should be considered

just my 2cents piglet

dank wrote:It's a highmount (M8274 only) or nothing guys. I recently went through the same thought process and hit up the ccda about the rules.

It's frustrating, because now I have to find a highmount to compete...OR...use my lowmount and get bunched into Challenge Class....where's the logic in that!?

It all makes sense but I still can't see if you only had a lowmount, you are going to be slower anyway...competing with a low mount is better than not competing at all!

discussion here:
http://forum.mudrhino.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=10051" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wont you have to run in challenge class with the 4age anyway dank?

Tojo wrote:

pcman wrote:so someone competing in a fj40 using a factory toyota pto winch isnt classed as production ??

apparently not. You MUST use the winch they specify. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, that is the rule.

That surprises me. The Venesvalans competed in the outback challenge in production class even though they had a supercharger. In their country, toyota factory fit superchargers to FJ79's, they proved it with documentations and the CCDA had to comply.

If the FJ40 has a factory fitted PTO winch, I don't see how the CCDA could refuse.

pcman wrote:
If the FJ40 has a factory fitted PTO winch, I don't see how the CCDA could refuse.

I think you need to read the rules

http://www.ccda4wd.com.au/images/CCDAFW ... sinRed.pdf

You may infact be able to compete with a PTO....but you would have to do it in the challenge class with the big boys with very deep pockets

I do agree that a decent lowmount would be great to compete with....I would be competing also as would alot of others, BUT a line needs to be draw in the sand stating what is acceptable and unfortunatly needing a highmount is one of those lines.

Maybe if enough noise is made about it the powers that be could possibly see the need for a rule change....

4.3.17 WINCHES
All vehicles must be fitted with one (and only one) operational powered winch when competing in
an event where winching is required.
Electric winches may have some additional bracing, improved bearings, improved lubrication and
an alternative DC motor with upgraded controls, but must remain in its original configuration.
PTO and Hydraulic winches they must be as designed by the supplier.
Winch hooks must be rated & have a self-retaining safety catch

you can use any winch you like, there are classes for what you want, just the comps your looking at dont run the classes.

touring class would be you true entry level class like your after

pozman wrote:
wont you have to run in challenge class with the 4age anyway dank?

Yeah that is correct. But the zook isn't going to be comped....Even though I think it would probably do ok I've spent too much money and time to trash it in a comp...There's another vehicle in the workshop...that we're building up...something a little different

Thommo 73 wrote:4.3.17 WINCHES
All vehicles must be fitted with one (and only one) operational powered winch when competing in
an event where winching is required.
Electric winches may have some additional bracing, improved bearings, improved lubrication and
an alternative DC motor with upgraded controls, but must remain in its original configuration.
PTO and Hydraulic winches they must be as designed by the supplier.
Winch hooks must be rated & have a self-retaining safety catch

you can use any winch you like, there are classes for what you want, just the comps your looking at dont run the classes.

touring class would be you true entry level class like your after

The comps i want are production class, not all offer the touring class option due to 33inch tyres just being too small for the stages i think. The rest of production class reg's are great. Think you need to start with a good vehicle first though as some would be more competitive in stardard forms than other's.

Dunaruna wrote:

Tojo wrote:

pcman wrote:so someone competing in a fj40 using a factory toyota pto winch isnt classed as production ??

apparently not. You MUST use the winch they specify. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, that is the rule.

That surprises me. The Venesvalans competed in the outback challenge in production class even though they had a supercharger. In their country, toyota factory fit superchargers to FJ79's, they proved it with documentations and the CCDA had to comply.

If the FJ40 has a factory fitted PTO winch, I don't see how the CCDA could refuse.

But the rules state is must be a hi-mount no matter the vehicle and what it may have been available with. As even GQ's can be had with a factory PTO.
Vehicle mods are different. And in that case it was a production mod for that vehicle.

just flog the low mount and find a good second hand high mount. low mounts are unreliable crap anyhow

seems you need to search all the rules before you decide you like the sport and want to compete..... how many people already have rigs with winched and then decide they want to have a crack.....seems like another motorsport driven by money......

uninformed wrote:seems you need to search all the rules before you decide you like the sport and want to compete..... how many people already have rigs with winched and then decide they want to have a crack.....seems like another motorsport driven by money......

Loollll, that's the whole point of production class, it's tightly controlled to keep costs down. Winch racing was never meant to be cheap
If any winch were allowed to compete, whats to stop somebody using a standard gigglepin?

uninformed wrote:seems you need to search all the rules before you decide you like the sport and want to compete..... how many people already have rigs with winched and then decide they want to have a crack.....seems like another motorsport driven by money......

whats the big deal, simple if your spec doesn't fit production class, enter in challenge.
you DO NOT need to blow $$$$$ to win!!!!!.
a carbie petrol Maverick, rear LSD , single motored highmount 24v DOES WIN events in challenge in vic. its won both rounds of engel so far.
sick of people winging that you need Blah, Blah Blah $$$$$$ to get anywhere.

I would have thought you would have been better off to compete in Challenge Class with a low mount than to not compete at all??

Competing with a slow mount may not be the most competitive but it's still a TON of fun.

We compete with a low mount in Challenge class. Not the fastest thing out there but not the slowest either. You'd be suprised. Also gives me time to catch my breath by not being the fastest. Me and the winch I mean.