Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I have an error code being flashed on my Autronic smc.

"SYNC" REFERENCE PULSE I/P MISSING.


Huh?
The car has a pretty good miss so hopefully this will be something to do with it.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Patrol tb42 Turbo

Location?

A mate had trouble finding an autronic tuner until he found Beninca Motors in surry hills, who spent alot of time and effort ironing out bugs.

I am an hour south of Sydney..It really needs a proper tune but I want to get as much as I can done beforehand.
I have looked at the Autronic forum but its pretty much all gibberish to me.

Try asking your question on the ' mrm racing autronics forum'
There's some great info, there helpful too.

I have used Autronic's for 7 years or so.
The reference sync error means that you are missing the Sync pulse that is required at near Top dead centre (on the compression stroke) of No1 cylinder.

The reference pulse is required once per cycle. (ie once per rev of distributor, = 2 crankshaft rotations)

Have you got both a crank trigger and reference trigger inside the distributor.? ( ie you need 6 crank triggers occurring 60° BTDC, plus one ref pulse occurring at Top dead centre on compression stroke for no1 cyl per cycle) [Note: there are other trigger options but this is often the simplest to implement.]

Also post details of the ECU as trigger options can be set up in numerous ways depending on model. (ie SMC 1.92 supports multi triggers like 60-2 bosch, etc)

Grant.

raptorthumper wrote:
The reference pulse is required once per cycle. (ie once per rev of distributor, = 2 crankshaft rotations)

Have you got both a crank trigger and reference trigger inside the distributor.? ( ie you need 6 crank triggers occurring 60° BTDC, plus one ref pulse occurring at Top dead centre on compression stroke for no1 cyl per cycle) [Note: there are other trigger options but this is often the simplest to implement.]

Also post details of the ECU as trigger options can be set up in numerous ways depending on model. (ie SMC 1.92 supports multi triggers like 60-2 bosch, etc)

Grant.

There is no trigger that I can see in the distributer other than what looks like a factory plug that is in the lower side.?
I am not entirely sure which model it is. I have been reluctant to plug it into my laptop as I dont know which one it is. My guess is that it is the later version as the car has only been set up for about 5 years.
Sean

raptorthumper wrote:I have sued Autronic's for 7 years or so.

I'm guessing this is a typo yes?

yep should have been "used" not "sued".

It sounds like you are not using a reference sensor (or camshaft sensor as known otherwise), inside the distributor, which is OK as long as you have a Reference Signal Pick-up fitted to the No1 spark plug wire. Is there a pickup fitted to the No1 spark plug lead as shown below.???

click on link below.

http://www.davesport.com/cgi-bin/davesport/AU005.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;





If not the engine will run as you are aware but you will not have sequential injection as the ECU does not know which crank pulse is assigned to no1 cylinder.

To have full sequential injection you must have a reference pickup (hall effect, etc with one pulse per cylce = 720°crankshaft rotation) OR a Reference Signal Pick-up fitted to No1 cyl (for distrubtor fitted vehicles).



_

Yep. Nothing like that on the lead.
So the car will run but badly? Missing, backfireing etc
If I install a lead reference sensor I take it I have to wire into the correct 'port' in the smc and the activate it through the laptop?
As far as I know a few people have had a go at this car, all of them have not bothered to use the error codes or look into the computer. Diognosis of burnt valve/s, worn distribtor bushes, faulty injector etc etc

It seems strange that it wasn't set up with that sensor.
What would the plug into the lower side of the dizzy be?
Its got the EfI dizzy in it, is it possible they have spliced into that further down the line and are useing that, or ia it not a sensor?

Ahh if the Distributor has changed then it "MAY" be using a refence signal, (as i know my TB45e has 2 channels coming from the distributor. One output has 360 pulses per rev of distrubutor. This is the black/white wire.
The other ouput has 6 pulses per rev, but one pulse is wider than the others to be the PIP signal. This is the green/white wire)

I am guessing you have an SMC so just check that you are actually using the green ref cyl pulse wire (PIN 8 goes to distributor) as shown in wiring diagram below. If this is not connected to anything then that's why you have sync errors.

The easiest thing to do in your case, would then be to buy a Ref signal pickup and fit this.




_

If someone has modified the distributor to produce the 2 separate channels (crank and reference) required then the disc will be setup as below.




_

I will have a look tomorrow arvo.
There is two plug points on the dizzy but one is not being used.

I have had a bit of a look and all the wires that go to the dizzy seem quite old/dirty.
There is a green,black,red and yellow all into a factory plug, they are the correct colours as far as i can tell.
There is definately a bare spade sticking out of the dizzy not used.

Maybe they tapped into the dizzy wire further down the harness. Best to track the wiring from the computer to the dizzy. You could also re wire the whole lot to get rid of the unreliability and poor wiring. That way you will no the ins and outs of it and will be able to diagnose any future problems.

Cris

Yeah I was thinking that.
The clean up has already started.

Pull the dizzy cap and post a good pic of the trigger discs. I will be able to see whats going on from that.

Grant.

So I guess its an optical sensor and the little notch is the trigger point. Can I unplug it and put a multi meter on it while turning it over?
Or will it need power going to it?

Or

can I hit it with some carby cleaner?

blackmav wrote:I am an hour south of Sydney..It really needs a proper tune but I want to get as much as I can done beforehand.
I have looked at the Autronic forum but its pretty much all gibberish to me.

My mistake, i misstook your intentions of the post. Good luck with it - i tried getting through the tech in this thread but my head exploded so i had to stop.

I'm the same, but the more you can figure out ,its not too bad. The actual tuning side of things I don't think I will touch.

It's hard to make out but if the trigger disc is metal then it is likely to be a hall effect sensor. I have never seen inside a stock TB42e dizzy, but it looks like there is only one trigger disc (unless there is another one located under it).

It also looks like there is 6 slots in the middle of the disc (one is wider to be a pip signal), plus one on the the edge which would be used for the refence pulse.

You can give the trigger disc a clean so it doesn't have any dirt or debris on it, but other than that you will need an oscilloscope to scope the pulses on the crank and reference wires to see how good the waveforms are. I don't know what skill level you have.

_

Skill level-------------zero.

Can I take the whole thing out and take it to a decent auto elec and get them to test it?

It looks like a plastic disk with very small ridges on it. Possibly 360 of them.

You can for sure. But can you tell that both the yellow and green wires are connected to the optical sensor.? i'm just thinking that whoever installed it might have done a bit of a bodgey and never bothered fitting the refence pulse wire up. If i was there i could fix this in no time for you regardless.

Also if it has 360 pulses then it's very similar to my TB45e as this the section out of the service manual for mine.

On second look at that trigger disc, i dont think anyone has ever fitted the reference pulse up properly (unless it is under the cover somewhere i can't see.)

To me it looks like a stock trigger disc and they would be using the 6 inner slots and selecting either the leading or trailing edge whichever is equispaced (60 deg apart) for the crank trigger.

Youve now lost me..
Wouldn't the big slot on the outer edge be the 60degrees or whatever it is before TDC, and that gets read by the factory sensor.
I tried to take the cover of the sensor but it wont lift off, must be a unit.

So I should pull it out and turn it around with the multi meter hooked up and see what I get? And I may take it to my elecky then .


Also thanks for the help, I will be stoked if this is the cause of my dramas.

It's such a crap photo.
You might be right, If the trigger disc was modified and glued up so that all those tiny 360 slots were filled up and then a new single wider slot (which is the one we can see) cut into it, then this would work fine for a reference pulse. The crank pulse would come from the other slots in the middle.

Grant.

Yep, so maybe a good clean and i will unplug the computer and find the trigger wire at that end and see if I can confirm that its actually plugged in to the dizzy.

Will carby clean be too harsh to use?

If you still are after a tuner for your car have a take to Paul from Pulse racing at Menai!!

Very good tuner, asks what you want out of the car as opposed to giving you a peak horsepower figure!!!

Thanks, I will add him to the list. ATM I havn't been recommended anyone so he is at the top