Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I have been pondering for a while about building a 110 cab chassis comp truck for ccda production class.
I am currently running an 82 2door rrc, apart from the 4.6 it complys with production regs, but in the two vic winch challenges I have done, first one I chewed the side gears out of one diff with matching axle damage and spun a bearing on the hemisphere with 3 teeth off the crown wheel. Second one I twisted both Maxi drive axles.
The 2007 breakages were driver error, the 2008 twists I was taking it easy but still broke where the nissans could drive full throtle.
It also seems that as most comp trucks are now utes the stages are set with that in mind,i.e panels or lack of.
So a 110 cab chassis, 3.5lt 14cux, ZF auto, LT230 with 30% reduction and 1.4 high range, front maxi 3.54, rear sals 3.54 shaved.
How can I fit a ccda complying cage in a truck cab ?
I also need to look at the $$$$.
110 chassis
body
rear sals locked
wiring
To help with fundingI have 2004 build 4.6 with 10,000 kms and rear maxi.
Any thoughts ?

should be able to pick an old county for less than $2k, then you just need a ute roof and back (fairly cheap on ebay from time to time). Would have to do an exo cage, and from what i remember you on the tallish side, so room in that little cab will be against you.
Can do the wagon to ute conversion almost over a weekend, fairly easy

6.5 Rangie, my son has a 109 truck cab at Noojee that may offer some parts to the build ( he doesn't drive it much as he is only eight). I don't think an exo cage qualifies under ccda regs, I think I can work out the A pillar, but the main hoop B pillar and the roof line seem to clash.

what about making a duel cab, just need a 130 roof and back window, or extending a standard cab chassis like Rovercare did on Aulro.

I have been trying to build one for 6years now and I am stuck on the roll cage I keep thinking about an extra cab but havin trouble finding someone and the correct parts etc. You can fit an internal cage but I am 181cm and its too cramped ( have sat in the british off road 90 ute ) exos are not permitted if you are trying to acheive ccda spec it must be internal. If exos were allowed I would have gone that way as you dont smash up the body work as much and a hell of alot easier

my ute has the following
4.6lt V8
4speed ZF worked internals with a 30% lower 1st gear
30% maxi drive low range gears
defender high range gears
maxi drive diff locks front & rear
and alot of other stuff

I think the 110 wheel base would be well suited to the faster winch challenge style events I have allways wanted to do the outback challenge which is why I went with the 110 ute. depending on what events you're wanting to do I think the 30% reduction in the low range is too low for the faster winch style events.

If you are thinking of doing an extra cab shoot me a PM maybe we can organise discount of parts etc

I asked a few questions a while back in regard to compliance, a 110 3.5lt truck cab was a factory build, I don't know if they ever came in an extra cab.
The compliance plate must stipulate the correct body type, you can not just cut up a wagon body.
I want to go the cab chassis route to minimise panels and therefore damage.
I already have the ZF and 30% lt230 it works quite well 3.54's.
If I can work out how to do the cage.
Does any one know where the compliance plate on a defender is located whats on it and how it is fixed ?.
Check out this link for regs
http://www.ccda4wd.com.au/images/CCDAFW ... sinRed.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; starts at page 28
Regards Michael.

There never sold an extra cab.

I have a 110 tray top, and it's compliance plate is riveted to the centre top of the firewall. I just took a pic in the dark - sorry about quality. The line just below the centre says

"LANDROVER C/CAB 4CYL DIE" (obviously not enough room to spell out 4cyl diesel)

The VIN follows on the next line and can be decoded to find the body details as well. The various ADR's are listed in the top half of the compliance plate. The year of manufacture etc. is below the VIN

I feel your pain....to me the internal external thing is a joke...seriously you can build a much stronger cage on the outside with direct attachment to the chassis instead of the drink can body.....I believe a UK competeitor came over with his 90 and competed in the outback challenge...he succsessfully argued for his external only cage....these rules stem from cars not 4x4s so alot are based on monocouqe chassis which would make sense but with our trucks its not needed...im 6.1 and apart from the height the width and front to back room is imossible in a truck cab with cage......... maybe get in touch with the rule guys and have discussions about it???

good luck

Serg

or ditch the roof and customise the cab to get ure cage in? then run an ally plate roof.

uninformed wrote:I feel your pain....to me the internal external thing is a joke...seriously you can build a much stronger cage on the outside with direct attachment to the chassis instead of the drink can body.....I

Sorry, that makes little sense Serg!! Where do you think an internal cage would mount!??!!

I think they let the OBC landy compete just because of the amount of effort and money he had put in just to land himself and a car here, but it does set a precedent.
I was told one of the reasons for no exo cages is that people invariably use them as panel protection and put them under stress and strain which could weaken their intended purpose as rollover protection .
I will also use the vehicle for social 4wding so I want it to look fairly stock and not attract attention, also body work mods are quite strict in production.

Petes wrote:

uninformed wrote:I feel your pain....to me the internal external thing is a joke...seriously you can build a much stronger cage on the outside with direct attachment to the chassis instead of the drink can body.....I

Sorry, that makes little sense Serg!! Where do you think an internal cage would mount!??!!

If you look at the specs for building/mounting internal cages, they require large surface area plates to mount to the body work to spread the load...i guess the idea is the body work is structualy secured to the chassis and you may not be able to get the cage attachment points to work back to the chassis......BUT on a LR Def you can build and exo using the chassis and body outriggers and be attaching the cage directly to the chassis...

As Sam said...you could do what the Haultech guys did years ago(in 3 weeks!) and cut the cab off at the dash, buld cage and mount a skin ontop of cage so basicly it becomes a internal.....light weight to

swamp wrote:I think they let the OBC landy compete just because of the amount of effort and money he had put in just to land himself and a car here, but it does set a precedent.
I was told one of the reasons for no exo cages is that people invariably use them as panel protection and put them under stress and strain which could weaken their intended purpose as rollover protection .
I will also use the vehicle for social 4wding so I want it to look fairly stock and not attract attention, also body work mods are quite strict in production.

thats what i figured to...but the precedent has been set as you say

I have never raced and can only theroise but maybe in a roll over you can have a rock ding the roof in and touch your head that may not happen if you had an internal...???? It just sucks that LR dont make the cabs a bit roomier and that the rule makers are basicly excluding a brand without coming up with a sutabile alternative...

My old cage in the rangie attatched to the chassis, when I went to scrutineering they wern't intrested in that .
The theory is that you are in a shell that is attatched to the chassis and that shell is reinforced to take the load of a rollover even if the body detaches from the chassis, so I had to enlarge the size of my base plates as per regs even though they had a coresponding plate underneath that attatched to the chassis.
The rules where written to reflect the construction of the majority of vehicle construction techniques.
I could see any governing body being hesitant to change the rules to allow a particular vehicle through, but I don't want to drive a nissan,rover diffs aren't strong enough and panel repairs suck.

the safe shell thing makes sense....but their blanket attitude doesnt. At the end of the day this is all for safety....take a look at Trouphy Trucks or dakar racers...all space frame where the chassis and cage are 1 with skins for body.... now if this IS for safety and they really mean it they would have to evaluate a LR Def truck cab and help come up with a solution...if you look at how they are bolted together, floor, seat base, firewall etc, it creates too many "Hinge Joints" and where would you fit a big eneough base plate for the front and rear tubes coming down to the seat base and floor/firewall????

Glenn Elliot ran a black Landy Hybrid Ute a few years back in the Ateco, i didnt get a close up look to notice how the cage was done inside the cab.

Pretty sure DaveS3 from here is a mate of Glenns, maybe shoot him a PM he might be able to help out a little?

have a look at zoltans soa 75 toyo ute its got a wagon style cage where the main loop cross bracing and taxi bar is out side the cab and the front bars run thro the roof into the cab allowing you to have the seat right back

good luck with this we need more rovers competing

DK wrote:Glenn Elliot ran a black Landy Hybrid Ute a few years back in the Ateco, i didnt get a close up look to notice how the cage was done inside the cab.

Pretty sure DaveS3 from here is a mate of Glenns, maybe shoot him a PM he might be able to help out a little?

didn't that have a higher roof and extended cab though? a little like glen form 'brothers offroad' old rig?

The rover cages (and some nissan ute cab cages) 've seen have the A pillar hoop inside the cab, with the main bars beside your head exiting the cab joining to an external B pillar hoop.
This was a while ago, the CCDA rules are fairly clear. It would be worthwhile sketching it up and speaking to them about it.

Cheers
dave

Guys

If it helps Ive got a fully Homoligated/Cams approved cage off my Defender 110 for sale. Raced 5 years of offroad championships and 3 Aust safaris with the car and absolutely no issues with the cage

I wouldnt have a clue if CCDA would accept it or not

I havent been able to post in the for sale section due to to many rules etc

Anyone who wants to talk to me about it please PM me


Dave

discokid wrote:Guys

If it helps Ive got a fully Homoligated/Cams approved cage off my Defender 110 for sale. Raced 5 years of offroad championships and 3 Aust safaris with the car and absolutely no issues with the cage

I wouldnt have a clue if CCDA would accept it or not

I havent been able to post in the for sale section due to to many rules etc

Anyone who wants to talk to me about it please PM me


Dave

Dave, is it an internal cage? is your 110 a ute or wagon? do you have any pics?

cheers,
Serg

uninformed wrote:

discokid wrote:Guys

If it helps Ive got a fully Homoligated/Cams approved cage off my Defender 110 for sale. Raced 5 years of offroad championships and 3 Aust safaris with the car and absolutely no issues with the cage

I wouldnt have a clue if CCDA would accept it or not

I havent been able to post in the for sale section due to to many rules etc

Anyone who wants to talk to me about it please PM me


Dave

Dave, is it an internal cage? is your 110 a ute or wagon? do you have any pics?

cheers,
Serg

Ute.

My concern with an exo cage for events like ateco is the very high possibility of a tree branch getting wedged between the cage and the body which resultant consequences as the tree acts like a lever.

In the open air not a problem but tight bush work will create problems and most vic events use this format.



now who wants to quote me on that?

very nice 110, cage is similar to what i would build....slightly different rear stays but in general thats it. The front hoop locates on the front outriggers, the rear hoop and diagonals locate on the chassis rails.

as far as a branch being a lever, i understand the idea but i cant see a strong enough = large branch wedging between the cage and roof and pusing the roof into the driver/passanger.....

the whole internal cage being inside a shell and creating a pod is from monocoque cars.... alot of space frame cars are chassis and cage all in one with skins...if these guys spent 5mins looking at the stenght and design of the LR Def bodys, there is no way they would recommend fixing a cage to them!

discokid wrote:Guys

If it helps Ive got a fully Homoligated/Cams approved cage off my Defender 110 for sale. Raced 5 years of offroad championships and 3 Aust safaris with the car and absolutely no issues with the cage

I wouldnt have a clue if CCDA would accept it or not

I havent been able to post in the for sale section due to to many rules etc

Anyone who wants to talk to me about it please PM me


Dave

Dave,

in the class/s you raced, where you allowed to change the suspension links/arms from the factory ones?

Yes you are allowed

In its second general just about to be reveiled it has link suspension , Fox Shox and a new cage to link the susupension in

The old cage , double shoock suspension and the tub are all sitting on my garage frloor at the moment

discokid wrote:Yes you are allowed

In its second general just about to be reveiled it has link suspension , Fox Shox and a new cage to link the susupension in

The old cage , double shoock suspension and the tub are all sitting on my garage frloor at the moment

sounds awesome,
if you would like to start a thread with pics, it would be great to discuss your set up. I understand if you dont want to for race reasons

Serg