Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys, thinkin bout doin the simpson desert from willam creek through mt dare, innamica, birdsvile etc next year and want to buy a good, reasonably priced shox, was leaning towards something foam cell or ome ltrs. and would prob need heavier coils 4 the back 2 to carry all my stuff, its in an 99 gu st ute. im in melb so places and prices would be appreciated. thanx people!!! oh and all this 2 suit 4 inch lift. sorry. thanx

If you use heavy duty coils brace your rear coil towers. Dobinson Shocks are another to look at aswell.

Cris

anything with 'velocity sensitive' valving will be good! and longer softer springs will always be better.

Interesting you have chosen some of the not so good performers in that price bracket.

As 1mad has suggested, plus high gas pressure, the roads your travelling arent that rough these days, and have ttotled along on those recent years with 4"lifted 80 at 160+ using the Ridepro Rox, with our slinky coils plenty of times, as well as desert trips etc tied in.

Bilstein,a nd the Fox bolt ons both take some beating for rough roads and corrugations though, out of all the shocks we have tried, and tested.

Dont even consider foam cell shocks for that type of thing. Once you overheat them and the cells break down the shock is then shot. Foam cell shocks are such as Tough Dog, Rancho etc. I can trash Rancho within 25mins on a corrugated road.

If you get a regular twin shell shock then when they overheat they will airate and fade off, but when they cool the shock action will come back again. These are TJM, ARB/OME, Monroe, Koni etc etc and infact probably most shocks.

If you want something which is suitable, look to the monotube shocks such as Bilstein, any of the Remote canister shocks, Some of the Ultimate range etc. These can not airate as the gas is maintained seperately to the oil, and the oil doesn't particularly thin with heat. I have heard some say that as the heat and so pressure increases, the shock becomes more effective - I cant vouch for that, but they dont fade. They either work or they're broken.

I don't sell nor particularly like foam cell shocks, but I have cut open 41mm bore foam cells out of an 80 series that had done a lap of Australia including plenty of corrugated roads. The foam cell was completely intact with no signs of falling apart, and I have no doubt these shocks would have got hot plenty of times. The owner alleged these shocks had done well over 200 000km. Regardless I sold him a set of Bilsteins and sent him on his way

thanx heaps for all your help boys. now i leaning to ride pro. but am i understanding correctly that ome ltrs are no good for this driving??? also want in coil air bags for the rear, but dont think they come to suit 4 inch coils.

You run a 2" inch airbag with extra spacers to make up the difference, Airbag man or Polyair sell them to suit.

Slunnie wrote:Dont even consider foam cell shocks for that type of thing. Once you overheat them and the cells break down the shock is then shot. Foam cell shocks are such as Tough Dog, Rancho etc. I can trash Rancho within 25mins on a corrugated road.

If you get a regular twin shell shock then when they overheat they will airate and fade off, but when they cool the shock action will come back again. These are TJM, ARB/OME, Monroe, Koni etc etc and infact probably most shocks.

I call bullshit. Have u ever used toughdog shocks. I've been running them for 6 years over some of the most corregated roads in Australia. I've had bolts from every corner of the car come loose, numberplates falling off, lights pointing in all directions, wheel nuts finger tight ect but the shocks have always worked a treat.

luke001 wrote:
I call bullshit. Have u ever used toughdog shocks. I've been running them for 6 years over some of the most corregated roads in Australia. I've had bolts from every corner of the car come loose, numberplates falling off, lights pointing in all directions, wheel nuts finger tight ect but the shocks have always worked a treat.

looks like you have to visit about 49292673635454 more threads to defend TD's because you're about the only person happy with them.

I suggest loctite for all the bolts on your car.

I owned a set and can completely agree with Slunnie.

ive done the hot lap and plenty of corrugated roads in between in a GQ running konis, they were very good and still goin strong ,the other 4bs that came with us were running foam cell TDs and they never missed a beat either ,must also mention we did the gibb river road plus a few roads leading off it inc kalumbaru rd ,all up about 1100kms of car destroying corrrugations we broke all sorts of stuff but not shockies

As Ludicris said. Dobinsons are a great shock especially for the price. I ran them on my comp truck for the first year and I loved them. I got asked to run Oldman Emu the second year and they were terrible. Way to soft and couldn't control the axle bounce. I wrecked 2 dobinsons shocks in that 12 months. Blew the seal on one after a long nav stage in Xtreme 8 day with a lot of jumps and the other at the same event I ripped the top off it after I snapped a winch rope and roll back down into a gully with a fairly big bang. Both shocks were on the rear and were the longest 80 series shocks they had.

so what your saying toughnut, is both brands of shox are shit for comps?????

jemmos wrote:so what your saying toughnut, is both brands of shox are shit for comps?????

No. The dobinsons worked well. I had one fail from the seals which could happen any where I guess but the one I ripped the top off could of happened to just about any shock under the same curcumstances as I didn't have limiting straps. I rate the dobinsons fairly highly especially for the price they are. The OME shocks just weren't up to the task for my car under any circumstances. They couldn't control my diffs properly and I was wallowing all over the place. I didn't change anything else in the suspension at the time so I got pretty much a direct comparison.

luke001 wrote:

Slunnie wrote:Dont even consider foam cell shocks for that type of thing. Once you overheat them and the cells break down the shock is then shot. Foam cell shocks are such as Tough Dog, Rancho etc. I can trash Rancho within 25mins on a corrugated road.

If you get a regular twin shell shock then when they overheat they will airate and fade off, but when they cool the shock action will come back again. These are TJM, ARB/OME, Monroe, Koni etc etc and infact probably most shocks.

I call bullshit. Have u ever used toughdog shocks. I've been running them for 6 years over some of the most corregated roads in Australia. I've had bolts from every corner of the car come loose, numberplates falling off, lights pointing in all directions, wheel nuts finger tight ect but the shocks have always worked a treat.

I would say the amount of vibration causing your damage is because the shocks are no good, and dont work properly, or you need a new spanner man!

Vehicle ride is subjective, but TD's dont even fit into a ride comfort end of the scale.

so what shox would you recomend auto craft?? im currently running omes to suit 4 inch lift.

jemmos wrote:so what shox would you recomend auto craft?? im currently running omes to suit 4 inch lift.

Did you not see post 4 in this thread ?

OME dont make a 4" lift shock, they do an "L" shock

my old man destroyed his tough dogs doing the NT.
started leaking on one side and theyre both so soft now its ridiculous, the car was like a trampoline

x2 auto-craft

I used koni when we crossed the simpson desert, had them on a 75 series cruiser for 12 years plus. i had them rebilt twice. Once in preperation for a trip and after because one started to weep a little. I also wore out a couple of spring packs in the same time. Highly recommend them. I now have a gu fitted with the 2" fox shocks, They are unbelieveable on dirt roads, but more expensive

Boss shocks by offroad boss. I run them on my comp truck and now my tow/tourer. They're 100% oil filled so do not fade, adjustable to allow for the massive change in weights your going to have, and are covered by a 12 month warranty

rammer60 wrote:Boss shocks by offroad boss. I run them on my comp truck and now my tow/tourer. They're 100% oil filled so do not fade, adjustable to allow for the massive change in weights your going to have, and are covered by a 12 month warranty

If they are 100% oil filled then they will be hydraulically locked. Boss shocks are foam cell shocks the same as Rancho and Tough Dog.

yeah your right. the reference is to the fact they are not gas charged, which i believe leads to aeration of the oil when it gets hot

rammer60 wrote:yeah your right. the reference is to the fact they are not gas charged, which i believe leads to aeration of the oil when it gets hot

That type of shock does fade and the foam cells often break down preventing recovery when they do. I've not used the Boss shock, but this was exacerbated in my opinion on the Rancho which shares the same construction due to the reduced oil capacity and the triple shell.

The shocks that don't tend to fade are the ones where the piston travels in oil, and the oil is physically seperated from the substance that allows an altering volume within the shock when it travels - ie Bilstein type where the gas charge is seperated with a piston within the shock body and remote canister type which have the same feature, except the gas charge and seperating piston is in the remote canister.

Hi guys, Rob from OffRoad Boss, we are the Australian distributors for Boss shocks. The foam used in our oil filled shocks has been tested not to break down, its been used for many many years in our range of shocks.
Bilstein (some of them anyway) have a chamber with a piston that keeps the gas and oil separate but only on the remote shocks. This is expensive.
If you want any more information on Boss shocks call (07)55 286 512, I'd be happy to answer any quieries.
Cheers

rammer60 wrote:yeah your right. the reference is to the fact they are not gas charged, which i believe leads to aeration of the oil when it gets hot

these sort of statements always worry me, especially when you are pushing a specific brand.

Gas charging was introduced to REDUCE aeration!
http://www.shockabsorbersworld.com/twin ... orber.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My understanding is that yes gas charging was introduced to reduce aeration, but comes at the expense of replacing the volume of oil contained within the shock.If you pull one of these shocks apart you will notice there is only just enough oil to cover the piston and valve, once this small amount of oil gets hot it relies on the gas pressure to stop it aerating. The higher the gas pressure the more chance the shock will not work at all when it gets hot because the pressure forces the valves open (even pressure both sides also called cavitation). So the theory is the greater oil capacity coupled with greater surface area to disipate heat works to keep the temp down.
Thats only my understanding of it, an opinion.
Cheers

offroadboss wrote:Bilstein (some of them anyway) have a chamber with a piston that keeps the gas and oil separate but only on the remote shocks.

The non remote reservoir Bilsteins also run a seperate nitrogen gas chamber with a dividing piston.

offroadboss wrote:Hi guys, Rob from OffRoad Boss, we are the Australian distributors for Boss shocks. The foam used in our oil filled shocks has been tested not to break down, its been used for many many years in our range of shocks.
Bilstein (some of them anyway) have a chamber with a piston that keeps the gas and oil separate but only on the remote shocks. This is expensive.
If you want any more information on Boss shocks call (07)55 286 512, I'd be happy to answer any quieries.
Cheers

Credibility Rob.....


Here is a cut away of a Bilstein shock. They have an internal piston to keep the gas and oil seperate even if they don't have a remote canister.

I'm not sure i understand what your getting at. By my own admission the Bilstiens are a brilliant shock. What you've stated is my point, that Bilstiens go to the trouble of seperating the two, increasing their effectiveness, but that technology costs. The point of my post was really in regards to the ability if the foam cell within our oil shocks to not break down under prolonged exposure to heat, in response to a previous comment.
Cheers guys, rob